In this episode, Christina Garnett shares her expert insights on elevating customer experiences and fostering customer loyalty, emphasizing the importance of Chief Customer Officers, cross-department collaboration, and integrating empathy into brand strategies. Through practical advice and real-world examples, she and the host explore creating impactful, customer-centric strategies that truly resonate.
In this edition, we're delving into how to not just attract the right customers, but keep them, and keep them happy. Joining us is the amazing Christina Garnett, Fractional Chief Customer Officer & Advisor.
Christina, an award-winning customer-centric leader, master of community, and driver of customer fandoms, shares her insights into the real customer experience and how to level it up. Whether it’s as a writer, strategist, or host, Christina’s dedication to cultivating customer delight is clear throughout her & the customer’s successes.
In our conversation, we tackle pressing topics, including:
🚀 Differentiating why companies need Chief Customer Officers
👂 Being a shepherd across silos and departments to increase customer satisfaction
📊 How customer journeys are not a linear pathway
💡 How brands can integrate empathy and delight into creating real customer relationships
Christina and I dive deep into these areas, providing practical advice and real-world examples. Join us as we investigate creating customer-centric strategies that hit their marks. Don't miss out—subscribe to Markigy with Leanne Dow-Weimer for more insights and expert conversations. Let's get into it! 🌟
00:00:06:11 - 00:00:23:26
Speaker 1
Hi there. This is Leanne Dow- Weimer with Markigy. And today I'm joined with Christina Garnett, who is just a wealth of just everything. I don't know. I love her. I'm like, fangirling, but please tell us about your background and what you're most known for and what it is that you're all about today.
00:00:24:05 - 00:00:49:17
Speaker 2
Yeah. So I have a very non-conventional background. I was an English major in college, taught math for four, four, five years, actually one year and in public four years in private, discovered marketing, became obsessed with it, read every book, watched every webinar, did all the things, discovered HubSpot Academy, and then worked my way through the trenches of social media, digital strategy, customer marketing and everything about that.
00:00:50:03 - 00:01:12:26
Speaker 2
Probably most known for running my mouth on Twitter and connecting people there, and that's probably what I'm most known for. I have I have a few people who call me the fairy godmother of marketing, Twitter, and so I'd say that's probably my claim to fame. And then right now, I just started my own company, a consultancy for Post-Sale Customer Journey.
00:01:13:07 - 00:01:25:29
Speaker 2
So part is fractional, so fractional chief customer services and then other is consulting from full customer journey all the way to Hey, would you build us a cab? Would you build a the customer community and things like that?
00:01:26:20 - 00:01:46:15
Speaker 1
Awesome. And there's so many things to really like hit on in that just brief synopsis. One of the things that we talked about was like why you chose customer success instead of like fractional, fractional CMO. So kind of expand on that.
00:01:47:06 - 00:02:09:28
Speaker 2
Yeah. So I there's you could just Google anywhere and find the whole like such and such is the next CMO, such and such as that. And I was the marketer who didn't want to be a CMO like it never really appealed to me. I thought about being a chief customer officer, being a chief community officer, whatever that look like, I always kind of was drawn to that specific kind of layer.
00:02:10:09 - 00:02:31:26
Speaker 2
But when I thought about leaving corporate world and doing my own thing, I designed my dream job like what is my actual dream job? And I broke down all the things that I loved, everything that I love doing at HubSpot. But like, what if I three times what I did at HubSpot, what would that actually look like? And so I use chatbot beauty and I use Google.
00:02:31:26 - 00:02:50:06
Speaker 2
And I was like for this job description, what would you call this person? And it was Chief Customer Officer And so for me, I was like trying to figure out, okay, well what does that even look like? And so a good marketer you're going to figure out like, what's your ICP, what's your unique selling proposition? How are you positioning yourself in a way that makes sense?
00:02:50:22 - 00:03:09:25
Speaker 2
And I don't think this is going to be controversial for me to say that the fractional CMO world is a bit saturated. I don't think that's a very controversial topic, but I think for like anytime you're doing like product market fit where the whole in the market, why am I a good person to do this and why am I the unique person?
00:03:09:25 - 00:03:39:18
Speaker 2
Like, why would you pick me over someone else who's trying to fill that part of the market? And so working with agencies and startups who specifically need a CTO but would never hire one full time, like they'll hire literally any other C-suite before that, but they need someone to champion the customer to make sure that they're having the best experience because retention matters, especially now when we're in this famine part of the economic cycle, you need to not only need to not only attract new customers, but you need to retain the ones you have.
00:03:39:18 - 00:03:59:12
Speaker 2
And I've I've seen this across the entire business scape like this isn't even just the companies I've worked for. There is this attraction to caught new revenue while completely ignoring and alienating what you currently have and then being shocked when they didn't automatically sign sign again just because like time ran out. It's just that that was very important to me.
00:03:59:12 - 00:04:04:02
Speaker 2
I find myself as like like Lorax for the trees, but like we're ex for customers.
00:04:05:04 - 00:04:23:10
Speaker 1
And, and I've got to say wholeheartedly that this podcast isn't meant to be an echo chamber, and sometimes it is. But like, the thing is, is that like and I'm going to steal the exact phrasing from someone I worked for is that we don't want to attract a whole swath of people just to piss him off.
00:04:23:18 - 00:04:24:05
Speaker 2
Yes.
00:04:24:17 - 00:04:54:06
Speaker 1
I but that's what people do. And that's that's that's what needs to happen is that like we need to be AI and this is where you and I align so heavily in the customer centricity is that like you are really doing a good job of meeting your ISP's needs if after the close and after the implementation or after they sign up for an account or whatever business organization like any of it.
00:04:54:18 - 00:04:57:27
Speaker 1
If, if you don't deliver the goods that you promised.
00:04:59:07 - 00:05:06:11
Speaker 2
And that you magically ignore them until it's like three months until they renew and then all of a sudden you can't wait to talk to us.
00:05:06:25 - 00:05:12:13
Speaker 1
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh. Oh, I see that you're up in my Q3. Looks a little empty. How are you doing?
00:05:12:18 - 00:05:26:01
Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly. And it's it's just wild to me. So I, I'm I get pretty loud. I think it I think it makes sense that I can be the person that can, can be that voice for them internally to be like this is it, right? Like, I'm going to need you to care.
00:05:26:29 - 00:05:48:27
Speaker 1
Now and I agree that your your sentiment that it it's not a likely C-suite role. And that doesn't mean it shouldn't be. It just means that, you know, oftentimes these duties of being the customer advocate is just assigned like halfway across many buckets.
00:05:49:12 - 00:06:32:00
Speaker 2
Yes. And I think but I think the beautiful thing about the chief customer officer and why it also attracted me is if you look at the corporate space, the leadership ladder for customer facing people is it's not really a ladder. It's more like you get one ring and then like or one rung and like that's it. Like you can go from like regular to senior, maybe you'll be head of, but the chief customer officer is that one C-suite table position for the people who are probably getting laid off right now, who are really great leaders because they have to be naturally empathetic to be good at their job when they're customer facing and there isn't
00:06:32:00 - 00:06:51:28
Speaker 2
as clear a path or hasn't been as clear of a path for those people. But this is it. This is an opportunity for them, like customer marketing that has that has a ceiling and has had a feeling for quite a long time. But those customer marketers can absolutely gear up to be the next CMO or the next CEO because of the what they have.
00:06:51:29 - 00:07:08:26
Speaker 2
If anything, they have that customer facing side, but then they also have the marketing half that they can wear to. And that's incredibly important because the person who is is who's at that table, they're going to have to be able to speak multiple languages. They're going to have to be able to work with sales and understand what that looks like.
00:07:08:26 - 00:07:29:19
Speaker 2
They're going to have to work with the marketing team and understand that that's not really aligning with the messaging that we want to tell. They're going to have to understand, is social telling the story that we want to hear for our audience, whether they're prospective customers or current customers? And so I think that that chief customer officer is such a really niche whole for those people who want to grow.
00:07:29:19 - 00:07:46:16
Speaker 2
But like where do I grow? What does that even look like? And so I hope that what I'm the work that I'm doing, I hope that that inspires other customer marketers and other people who are customer facing to be like that's the new goal. That's, that's going to be the role that I work towards.
00:07:47:12 - 00:08:09:19
Speaker 1
Yeah, absolutely. Because in my mind, like the mental map that, you know, if I'm looking at arrows and, you know, diagrams, I'm thinking that customer success is kind of like a sideways like triangle in between, just like you said, sales and marketing. But then it doesn't, it doesn't promote without going back into either one of those channels. Yep.
00:08:10:13 - 00:08:30:18
Speaker 2
Or operations which I think is a disservice. I think that's a great disservice. Is the fact that and those people also don't tend to be given the salary that other positions get either. So they tend to have a lower salary even though they're significantly crucial to the retention of those customers. And then in order for them to grow, they have to leave.
00:08:31:06 - 00:08:45:00
Speaker 2
Like you're going to have to completely leave this department in order to to see the growth that you want, which I think is which I think is sad, because whether you realize it or not, your positioning someone to say in order for you to independently grow, you need to let go of the customer.
00:08:46:06 - 00:08:48:00
Speaker 1
Yeah. And it forces.
00:08:48:00 - 00:08:48:25
Speaker 2
You to be selfish.
00:08:49:20 - 00:09:29:00
Speaker 1
There's so much wrong with that. I mean, the other part about it is just from like a pure efficiency of cash standpoint. And for some reason it's still mind boggling to me that everyone's like, Oh, grow, it'll cost. Like, Money is cheap. No money was never cheap. You were just taking the easy route. Great. Some of it worked, but like when you look at cash efficiency and whether or not you're increasing your margins or your RR or any of these things, when you start to overly churn, you're you're just blowing buckets of cash just just for no good reason.
00:09:29:26 - 00:09:53:08
Speaker 2
I think also. So I'm glad that you brought that up because I think we saw a lot of this during the pandemic where you see like famine and other industries where it was crippled by what was happening with everything. But then there were other like more digital and online focused industries that soared. And the problem is, is that that was a bubble that was always going to be a bubble because that's not sustainable.
00:09:53:08 - 00:10:24:11
Speaker 2
However, you're seeing the ramifications of that with all of these layoffs. But like, where was the contingency plans for when that bubble was going to burst, or did we all just run straight ahead with low interest rates thinking we'll cross that bridge when we get there because it's looking like we cross that bridge. The problem is, is that it's the staff that are being thrown off the bridge when we get there, when they're not the people who made the decisions that caused the layoffs.
00:10:25:04 - 00:10:29:12
Speaker 1
Well, and then that in turn impacts the customer experience.
00:10:29:25 - 00:10:30:10
Speaker 2
All right.
00:10:30:12 - 00:10:41:03
Speaker 1
Let me get, like so much, so horribly, like I couldn't imagine I am having my this has happened. So, you know, like you're.
00:10:41:03 - 00:10:41:17
Speaker 2
Saying, my.
00:10:42:07 - 00:11:06:22
Speaker 1
I can't imagine this explicit event for sure happened not that long ago. So I can imagine it, but it feels really yucky to be like mid sales cycle with us with anything and then all of a sudden your person is not there anymore and they ghost you and and then what happens next? Like, okay, so that was a full time job that is now vaporized.
00:11:07:02 - 00:11:45:19
Speaker 1
Okay. So, so as the person I am a much more hands like strong hands are the most. And I like email, I like to search. I'm like somebody, somebody, you know, like so-and-so's manager, like what happens? Like, we still want this thing and they don't respond. And you know why they can't respond? Because they stuff. We had way more stuff than they have bandwidth or they just saw their half their department get laid off and they're like, you know, in the midst of some, you know, emotional turmoil, whatever the cause maybe is that like that product that that sales cycle ended that day?
00:11:45:20 - 00:11:45:27
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:11:47:16 - 00:11:48:14
Speaker 2
Well, it does. And I think.
00:11:48:16 - 00:11:48:21
Speaker 1
That.
00:11:49:27 - 00:12:24:16
Speaker 2
Retention matters, but I think it also showcases the disconnect because you're letting go of the people who touch your customers. So obviously that immediately impacts the customer experience, but also it it reframes your entire brand because if you were the cozy, fun, friendly brand and we're all family and we are like top employee or top employer of the year every year, and then you just slice and dice over time.
00:12:24:16 - 00:12:45:06
Speaker 2
That gets a lot louder than the awards. And so I think that we're seeing this prevailing pattern of we're all going to ramp at the same time and we're all going to slice and dice at the same time. And because of that, we're all kind of giving each other PR cover because at some point there's going to be a company bigger than us who slice and dice is even bigger.
00:12:45:15 - 00:13:20:17
Speaker 2
And so you'll be thinking about that brand instead of ours, and then you'll be happy. But I think it showcases to the customers, especially what matters to the brand, because you're you're letting go of like those, those two things are are the biggest drivers, in my opinion, of business success is happy customers, happy employees. There's no advertising campaign you can create that's going to drive more brand sentiment and positive word of mouth than your employees talking about how much they love coming to work.
00:13:20:25 - 00:13:38:01
Speaker 2
And then because they're so happy at work, they're going to do better work. They're going to be more productive. They're genuinely going to care about their customers. So they're going to go above and beyond and give like really solid, best in class customer experience. And the customers are going to feel even more humanly connected to the people that they work with.
00:13:38:19 - 00:13:54:22
Speaker 2
Business is such a human thing and we talk like empathy was like the biggest word in business for so many years. And then these layoffs just made that it got very quiet. There's a lot less empathy talk with all these layoffs. There's just a lot less.
00:13:54:22 - 00:14:26:25
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The word family gets tossed around a little bit less at least. Yes. Now we hear it. We know what it means. Yeah. Now, kind of coming back to a way that you helped us visualize the way that customers go into this and in the customer touch and we've kind of talked about jumped around virtually between different departments that do this, but you explained it as a labyrinth and I love that example.
00:14:26:25 - 00:14:28:28
Speaker 1
Could you just like walk us through that?
00:14:29:05 - 00:14:47:27
Speaker 2
Yeah. So I have a big problem with customer journeys being seen as a linear path because it absolutely is not it's not even how humans work. Like think of one day where you did every single thing in the exact order that you wanted to do it. There were no distractions. There was no I'll get back to that. Like that's just not even how our brains work.
00:14:48:14 - 00:15:17:10
Speaker 2
And so you're a signing this one specific journey for literally all of these people. Like that's different cultures, different time zones, different needs, like the way a parent versus a non parent like goes through a customer journey. There's going to be things that are slightly tweaked, they're just are based on how they get through their day. So I love the idea of a labyrinth because you can go in from different spots, probably get lost if it's not done correctly and you're trying to figure out your way out.
00:15:17:25 - 00:15:38:25
Speaker 2
But depending on where you enter, you're not going to be always interacting with the same people. There are tons of people. Times when I was at HubSpot where they're not talking to sales, they're pinging me on Twitter because I have HubSpot in my bio. I don't work for the sales team, but if I let that silo exist, then what you want me to say, Oh, I can't help you.
00:15:38:25 - 00:16:01:19
Speaker 2
Sorry, that's not my job. That's not how you should operate. You could be like, Hey, how can I help you? What do you need? How can I help you? Do what? Resources. You want me to connect to the team? How can I make this easier for you? And so what you need to think about is in that labyrinth is that your customers are in the labyrinth and it is your job if you work for that company, to get them through that labyrinth and have fun doing it, not get trapped, not get anxious.
00:16:01:24 - 00:16:25:27
Speaker 2
You are there to guide them, which means if you have people stationed all throughout that thing, it doesn't matter what your job is. You have your specific scope of work, but the overarching North Star needs to be we take care of our customers. And if that is the overall Northstar scope of every single person and they know how they can do that or how they can get them to someone who can do that, then everyone is empowered to improve the customer experience.
00:16:26:09 - 00:16:41:11
Speaker 2
So you're not Oh, let me transfer you, let me transfer you. No one wants that. That is not helping anybody. But if you say like, Hey, I know exactly who you need to talk to you, why don't you grab my hand? I'm going to walk you through here. You might get lost without me. Just hold on tight. We're going to get through this together.
00:16:41:11 - 00:16:57:13
Speaker 2
It's gonna be awesome. Very, very, very different experience. So you need to guide people through that. What are all the different parts of the labyrinth they could get into? Who needs to be stationed where to make sure that people don't get lost and instead they have a good experience and they're able to get to where they need to go.
00:16:57:27 - 00:17:22:10
Speaker 2
And with I here's another problem with I there should be a way to help not replace help. So now you have more places around that labyrinth where you can have stations like self-service. Hey, here's a little map. I'll just put this little map right here. So that way I don't have to have a person here, but I'm still going to need a person somewhere at another juncture so they can get talked to and they can get help.
00:17:22:10 - 00:17:38:09
Speaker 2
But I'm going to have this map right here. Maybe that'll help some people if they can self-serve. But like this linear path makes no sense to me. No, that's not how we operate. It's not how we think, and it's not how your customer thinks to thinking that they found you through social and that's where they're going to start their path.
00:17:38:19 - 00:17:49:17
Speaker 2
Or they magically found your website in the year, the year 2024, you think they magically found you by direct like like they just happened to know your website domain.
00:17:50:06 - 00:18:01:15
Speaker 1
And they've never heard of you before. Never, never heard of you. You just. Just dropped from the skies with a direct link to your website. No, no, that would be great, but it'd be awesome.
00:18:01:15 - 00:18:23:24
Speaker 2
But that's not how we operate. And so you have to like I do a lot of game theory in my in my work. I find that like behavioral psychology and game theory are like the two most important things any marketer can have if you understand how people think, and then you can break down all the ways they could do something, then you can prepare for all of those eventualities.
00:18:23:24 - 00:18:44:19
Speaker 2
And then how can I make this easier if they choose this path? Where does it get hard? Where does it make them want to quit? Versus if they go this way, it's going to take longer. But maybe I can make sure that even though it takes longer, they're able to learn more during that process. Maybe they get more research resources along the way.
00:18:45:00 - 00:19:00:25
Speaker 2
That's great. But just having that mindset of how are they going to behave? What are all the ways they can behave, and how can we look at all of those different pieces to make sure that we're guiding them and that everyone involved feels like they can touch the customer and make it a really great experience. That's the key.
00:19:01:14 - 00:19:24:12
Speaker 2
But we're not doing that. We are doing stunts, we are doing means we are, which are not bad on their own. But like we had the the stove thing with the Snoop Dog thing, so the CEO gets dropped because the sales didn't increase for me from the outside looking in, that tells me that was a Hail Mary pass.
00:19:24:18 - 00:19:44:02
Speaker 2
That was a stunt. That was a very expensive stunt to be like, we got to salvage this and we got to get more sales. So we're going to do this campaign and it's going to fix all of our problems. That's not how it works, though. And sometimes it does. Like the Pop-Tart, the Pop-Tart mascot, Edible Mascot was brilliant and hilarious, but that's like magic in a bottle.
00:19:44:12 - 00:20:15:10
Speaker 1
But also, first of all, audience matching. So this is my like outburst that you're going to get for me about influencer marketing. Just because they're a influencer or an influencer does not mean they are your influencer. Yes. Their target audience that they're getting all of the impressions and views does not mean that they are not just entertainment. What you have to do is make sure that there is a savvy match in their audience.
00:20:16:00 - 00:20:46:28
Speaker 1
Okay. So Pop Tarts and college students have an amazing duh. Like that's a give me. Of course, college students love pop. They're still kids like like that. They're broke in their kids. It's a pop tart, duh. You know, but. But, like, Snoop was a stole. For who? Like, we love nostalgia, but his audience, you know, maybe if it was Snoop and Martha Stewart and they were together making s'mores because I love them together couple.
00:20:47:01 - 00:21:09:18
Speaker 1
I love for sure like that might be more of an audience match because it brings over Miss Martha Stewart with her, like, entire Macy's collection. Yeah, but it's it's just Snoop and his ICP is not people that purchase stoves because Snoop was there.
00:21:10:18 - 00:21:29:14
Speaker 2
Well, there's that. But then there's also the fact that he overshadowed the whole campaign. So the campaign's about him. So basically you get all this is basically all this build up. And then we heard the punchline and it's like, Oh, that's what it was. Okay, okay. Back on the regularly scheduled broadcast. Yes.
00:21:29:29 - 00:21:47:23
Speaker 1
Yeah. But I you know, there there's ways that that could have worked. And it just it was it was a Hail Mary back to what you were kind of saying previously to our Segway was about.
00:21:47:23 - 00:21:51:24
Speaker 2
We are also in the labyrinth. We are just like we're in one place.
00:21:51:24 - 00:22:03:08
Speaker 1
You know, I'm I'm a parent. I don't talk about it on LinkedIn because, you know, people discriminate for stuff like that. But you know what my morning looks like? It looks like a lot of juggling.
00:22:03:22 - 00:22:04:08
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:22:04:08 - 00:22:24:07
Speaker 1
And it does not look like we are always our deal warnings. We are straight from start to finish in a little checklist of things. Yes, I love it. There is always a certain start to my checklist and always a certain outcome. Start with coffee, get kid to school those. That's the beginning in the middle is not always the same and not our normal journey in life.
00:22:25:28 - 00:22:38:12
Speaker 1
One thing that you also said before we were recording lesson, we talked is about creating these core memories. Mm hmm. I want to hear you tell our listeners more about, like, what that vibe is.
00:22:38:20 - 00:23:04:18
Speaker 2
Yeah. So one of the things that I think brands do particularly well when they nail it is infusing their brand into a core memory, something that matters to them, something that they cannot forget, like their brain holds on to it. Probably the best example of this is Chewy. Chewy does just masterclass level customer care, but they found a way because there's tons of brands that will sell you dog items.
00:23:04:18 - 00:23:22:26
Speaker 2
There's tons of there's tons of brands that will cater to your pets. So it's not like they created that market. It's not like they reshaped it. Like it's what they've done is they've made themselves a part of those people's lives. And so, yes, it's convenient. Yes, they'll get shipped to your door, whatever. But that's not what it is.
00:23:23:25 - 00:23:46:21
Speaker 2
So and you can see this on Twitter, you can see this on Instagram even like it's all over social one and it goes viral most of the time. When it happens, when it's when it's spoken about, someone's pet will die because none of us are more are immortal. Like it's it's our time. At some point and they will call to cancel the they'll just call to cancel like I clearly don't need this anymore.
00:23:47:15 - 00:24:12:07
Speaker 2
I don't have anyone to give this to and it's also just a really painful experience. So a brand has to be called the cancel the service because something that they loved passed that is a minefield. Someone's already devastated. They don't want to talk to you. They don't want to wait. Now we're thinking about how much money they're going to waste on you if they can't get it canceled.
00:24:12:25 - 00:24:34:06
Speaker 2
And instead, Chewy handles it with, like, the most upfront empathy I've ever seen. So let's say that you have some dog food and you don't know what to do with it. Hey, can I just return this? Like, I just. I don't need this anymore. And she was like, oh, you don't have to return it. Like, why don't you donate this to, like, a local shelter and that way.
00:24:34:06 - 00:24:58:27
Speaker 2
So, like, you're helping dogs in need without without provocation. Amazing. That's great. That's. That's great. They don't stop there. They then will give followers and a condolence card from the named with the person who you spoke to. So instead of them having a script to like walk you in circles and gaslight you into keeping your subscription, we're like, Well, you might get another dog soon, right?
00:24:58:27 - 00:25:26:14
Speaker 2
Like, you don't need to cancel. Like, Yeah, but you know, those companies exist. They have a script ready to go to walk you in a circle and make it absolutely impossible for you to cancel. Instead, Chewy sends a note and flowers. Sometimes it's a painting of your of your pet. And so you've gone from company to, like, inner circle real fast because you acted like you were in the inner circle.
00:25:26:14 - 00:25:47:21
Speaker 2
You acted like you were family and friends, and that's what puts you in that position. And so for the people who like Star Wars Day, may the force be with you. There's tons of brands that try to capitalize on that. What Chewie does is they'll have people send in pictures of their animal that's named after a Star Wars character, and then they make paintings of them.
00:25:47:21 - 00:26:10:17
Speaker 2
So that is now a physical object that is going to stay in that person's house. And because it's depicting something that they love, they're going to have all these warm and fuzzy feelings about it, but it's also deeply associated with the brand that gave it to them. You are creating core memories that are not only like powerful, but positively powerful.
00:26:11:24 - 00:26:30:10
Speaker 2
Look how these people took care of us. Look how these people gave me a painting that I'm going to cherish for the rest of my life. And they may not be your customer in the next 30, 60, 90 days because it's going to take them time to grieve. But if they do ever have another animal in their life, they 100% are going to choose you.
00:26:30:28 - 00:26:50:20
Speaker 2
And that's the other thing that a lot of brands get wrong. They're so focused on that next 30, 60, 90 that they don't realize the damage they're doing to people. Because what you're doing is you're you're cutting people off from you because you're trying so hard to close the deal or to keep the deal open instead of being human.
00:26:51:09 - 00:27:09:00
Speaker 2
And so not only do they not renew, they're never going to renew versus these people who are like they treated me like a human. They understand. I was devastated and they were there for me and they were thoughtful and kind. And as soon as I get another animal, as soon as I get another pet, I can't wait to be a customer of theirs.
00:27:09:04 - 00:27:28:20
Speaker 2
I can't wait to tell everyone else I know about how lovely this was. And I just it's shocking to me because it goes viral every single time and you'll see articles about like how they did a great job. I even wrote one, then no one duplicates it, but then no one else does it. I'm like, I think they wrote the book on this.
00:27:28:28 - 00:27:45:04
Speaker 2
They they told you everything you needed to do. Like you've seen what it looks like. You've seen it works. It's like an open case study living on Twitter and very few people duplicate it. It's wild to me. It's wild. But it's it's. That's the business world that we're in it.
00:27:45:18 - 00:28:35:07
Speaker 1
I was waiting for you to talk about how they're friends and family. So if you want to create a cult like following, right? Because my job as marketer, whether I was in fitness or social media or whatever you like, vertical it is you want to create a cult like following responsibly. That's right. We're not actually cults just like that, but like the whole point is, is creating these moments that are core memories or emotional tie downs, whether it's a milestone or it's an event or it's achieving a certain level of progress, and you want to take that high that they've already got, because for whatever reason, this thing has prompted feelings of euphoria.
00:28:35:07 - 00:28:56:05
Speaker 1
There's a little bit of dopamine. You want to take that and you want to like touch it. So someone has an anniversary with you. You don't want to just be happy anniversary like, no, that's lame. That's anyone can do that like I can. You know, it's good. Bench stakes should be acknowledging the milestone because some people don't even get that far.
00:28:56:12 - 00:28:57:04
Speaker 2
Most don't.
00:28:57:11 - 00:29:18:24
Speaker 1
Most don't. But once you get past that milestone, you want to touch that. You want to be like, how can I be extra? How can I make this amazing? And then you make it a thing and people love it because they want a thing. We all crave more dopamine. More was like, we want this. Our brains are hardwired to search it out.
00:29:19:04 - 00:29:40:23
Speaker 1
We are addicted to social media because it gives us like in predictable amounts of dopamine. Yep. We have to go chase it. Oh, this one good of no. Okay, keep going. But when your brand can habituate people to feel good and associate them with that oxytocin, all the good warm feelings you are. Like you said, you're part of the inner circle.
00:29:41:04 - 00:30:03:04
Speaker 1
You've made a real connection and the only way to get there is by caring. It's by caring. You have to give it out. And that's that's where we're at. That's where we should have always been, where we used to be at. For the most part. It's it's just I don't get how people don't get it.
00:30:03:04 - 00:30:29:19
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think we're I think we're seeing I think we're seeing it. I think the pressures in the economy have really let me rephrase that. If you think about how you treat people, the economy should have no bearing on how you treat somebody because you can still email them. You can still call them. You don't have to give them swag.
00:30:29:19 - 00:31:00:25
Speaker 2
Like maybe you cut your swag budget in half. But there's other ways to love people. There's other ways to show that you care. And so I think that a lot of companies in the economic downswing the customers have felt it in multiple ways. There have been price increase there, like support has been slower, all of these things. But at the end of the day, you don't want their relationship with you to change, but you are changing how you treat them like that's going to have ramifications.
00:31:01:12 - 00:31:18:21
Speaker 2
And so I would challenge anyone who's listening to this to be very thoughtful about how you were making people feel special and how because you want them to love you, but you don't want to take any steps to love them back. And I'd love to know how that math works. I would love that it works. It does, doesn't it?
00:31:19:10 - 00:31:42:16
Speaker 1
You know, there is a pathology associated with that. But but more to your point, was that cause and effect? You know, cause and effect like we we don't have to be scientists. We don't have to be like Harvard educated to understand you touch the hot stove, you get burned, you treat people like crap. They're not going to like you.
00:31:43:01 - 00:32:15:20
Speaker 1
They they just are that that's, you know, tit for tat. And they're some of these like more Goliath's out there that feel like, oh, well, all roads lead to us, like we don't have to be. So, you know, we can be clunky, we can be rude, we can, you know, know what that is. There's no other choices. But if you look at the map of how many new stuff platforms have just exploded in the past year, five years, like just pure explosion.
00:32:15:20 - 00:32:20:15
Speaker 1
Is that they're coming for you? It's a matter of time now.
00:32:21:18 - 00:32:47:08
Speaker 2
And that connectivity is the closest thing to shark repellent in a red ocean. That's what that's less that's remote because anyone can happen to I know anyone can be more efficient. Anyone can speed up things. But the caring and that's the other thing, too. Like you can't you can't fake that. You absolutely cannot forget. And your customers can always tell.
00:32:48:00 - 00:33:07:09
Speaker 2
They can always tell when people care and when you genuinely want to help them versus like, Oh, this is just something else I need to do today. They can always tell that's the moat that is the deepest moat you can build, especially if you find yourself surrounded by incumbents and champion and challengers like you just. You have to you have to really think about like, what is your differentiator?
00:33:07:09 - 00:33:24:12
Speaker 2
Because if everyone's using AI, what's the differentiator? Because it's all the same. Like everyone's building out the same, the same. Like they plug the host to open AI and then they have it all doing the same things.
00:33:24:12 - 00:33:49:03
Speaker 1
Yeah. So, so what makes you so special? Where's your competitive advantage? What what makes you so different? And and that's something that we as marketers like we have to answer for in our own roles. Like we have to be like, Well, what makes Leanne's writing any better than JP is? Well, you know, it depends on the day, but but like I, you know, G is still is pretty good and it's just going to get better.
00:33:49:15 - 00:34:07:00
Speaker 1
And how do we rationalize what we're doing if we can't say that we understand other people better than I does? Yep. And I can get us pretty far, but it needs to have the the puppet master working it.
00:34:08:00 - 00:34:28:11
Speaker 2
Well I think it I think we're going to see this line drawn in the sand and it's already it's already starting where there are absolutely core reasons why I should be a part of your life like it can it can greatly drive efficiency and productivity and be able to start you on things. You never have that empty, empty work space syndrome again.
00:34:28:11 - 00:34:53:28
Speaker 2
Like writer's block is completely destroyed. Now that being said, we are in the middle and have been since the pandemic of this loneliness economy. So as humans, even introverts, we deeply want to connect on some level. We we at our best, in our worst, are deeply human. And so you incorporate AI into more, more of our work. Great, fine, whatever.
00:34:54:18 - 00:35:15:05
Speaker 2
But where can we be remarkably human? Where can I find the empathy? Where can I find the connection? Where I believe someone understands what I'm going through and genuinely cares and wants to fix it? Like, I think that when we're thinking about what does customer care look like because a lot of customer care is process based, that doesn't make it less human.
00:35:15:05 - 00:35:36:08
Speaker 2
It just means there's a process. It means we have a structure and a framework ready to go. That's great. I can live in those moments. But how can you infuse this remarkably human perspective into those parts where a human is at the wheel so that you feel cared for, you feel that empathy infused in everything that they're doing?
00:35:36:08 - 00:36:02:15
Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, at some point, if you're looking at something as simple as a phone call, like if someone's lost in the press, one here or say your answer like circle of doom, they're they're going to try. And was it cheaper to use that IVR or was it was paying somebody that has like a voice and tone of voice and is reasonably compensated so they don't sound like they're pissed off to be answering the phone?
00:36:02:25 - 00:36:28:00
Speaker 1
Is that going to be the cheaper and the more effective in higher value choice? You know, I clearly have my bias in how I phrase that. But, you know, it's it's facts. You know, I'm sure I could either I'm sure we could all think of a time where we tried to say yes and it just couldn't understand what we were saying.
00:36:28:00 - 00:37:11:20
Speaker 1
Yeah. And that also works with like DH, I like not everybody has the same AI ability or the way that they do. It may have an accent from different languages or regions. So, so there's a multitude of accessibility levels is answered by having a person that can be like, Oh, you're saying this or, you know, trying to find alternative ways with simpler words or other words, or I, I can connect you to our closed captioning line or other ways to communicate, because otherwise there's a wide swath of people that all of a sudden your thing is inaccessible to.
00:37:12:02 - 00:37:31:08
Speaker 2
Yeah. And I think that comes back to that human condition is we, we want to plug everyone into a workflow. We want to plug everyone into this automation. And then we forget that you're still putting humans into that position. Does it work for their brain? Does it work for how they do things? And then we're shocked when they act.
00:37:31:08 - 00:37:48:13
Speaker 2
Human, yeah, when we're shocked when they don't do the exact next step that we all thought they were going to do. It's like just human psychology and it's we forget we so want them to. We want their money, but we don't want them to act human in the process. And it's it's just very sad.
00:37:49:14 - 00:38:07:17
Speaker 1
It's why I love stuff like hate mapping because just because I think that you are going to enter the website and you're going to do this, that and the other, because I've laid it out with the clear master of making websites that I must be, doesn't mean that that means the same thing to you or that you want to experience it that way.
00:38:08:19 - 00:38:29:13
Speaker 1
And if you've ever taken a group of people through a simple craft, you will see that even though you put up signs or you know it, skip the craft analogy. Let's talk about Disneyland. You know what Disneyland has they have maps that you can have on your person. They have an app with a map. They've got people, they've got signs.
00:38:29:13 - 00:38:32:09
Speaker 1
There is still people that get lost.
00:38:32:09 - 00:38:32:18
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:38:33:10 - 00:38:34:26
Speaker 1
That's just how people are. Yeah.
00:38:35:26 - 00:38:58:24
Speaker 2
Well, there's also there's also a category of people, myself included. I was talking to someone about this today where I was talking, I was building a course out on this website. I'm going to mention the website. But because so many other people have created courses, they're my my immediate gut need is to not build it there. And so I'm trying to fight that or to be like, no, I can do this.
00:38:58:24 - 00:39:03:27
Speaker 2
It's like, no, I don't. I purposely if everyone goes right, I feel compelled to go left.
00:39:05:28 - 00:39:20:00
Speaker 2
If you if you're if you're thinking that we're all going to fit into this nice little bubble and we're we're all going to go in the same path, it's just it's you're going to be you're going to be very, very much surprised over and over and over again. Hopefully you'll get the point that it's just that's not how we operate.
00:39:20:22 - 00:39:37:09
Speaker 2
It's just not how it is. There's going to be some people who they want to see other people go down the path before they even take a foot in. There is going to be others who will do the exact opposite because they just want to see something different. Usually people who break and find like someone's going to take a machete into that labyrinth and cut their way out.
00:39:38:10 - 00:39:40:13
Speaker 1
And they're going to bulldoze it. They're just going to go, Yeah.
00:39:40:23 - 00:40:00:02
Speaker 2
There's going, there's yeah, it's, there's no, there's no singular path. And so there's so many ways to and there's so many ways to understand those people and their path if you genuinely care, because you will naturally take the steps like I want to talk to you like we're going to do a customer interview, but like I genuinely, genuinely want to learn more.
00:40:00:02 - 00:40:22:07
Speaker 2
Like why ask why? Why did you even, why did you even try? Like, what did you love about us? How are we different? Like customers will tell you, like the voice of a customer so incredibly powerful. They'll tell you so much that like, you can't get any other way, but then you ignore them or you don't use what they tell you to try to capitalize like this.
00:40:22:07 - 00:40:45:02
Speaker 2
The thing too is let's just say that you selfishly use your customers to get new customers. At least you're acknowledging the value of your current customers like you're manipulating using them. But still, at least you're acknowledging this has value. But there's some who don't even do that. Or they'll say, I'm going to write a review for them. And they never thank them.
00:40:45:19 - 00:41:22:09
Speaker 2
They never say a word. And it's it's just we need to we need to craft this culture of gratitude towards customers. Because I think that we I know that we take them for granted. And then we are shocked when they behave like someone who has been taken for granted. And it's just that I feel like it's that gratitude piece that so that so needs to be acknowledged because I find that when you do see that that content and that kind of messaging from CEOs and C-suite, it tends to usually be a crisis.
00:41:22:09 - 00:41:46:14
Speaker 2
Com situation. It tends to be we're so grateful for our customers because we've gone through this storm. You need to be grateful for your customers in good times and bad. You need to be grateful for your customers in great economic times and bad economic times. And if they can feel the difference because the economic environment, then you're telling them that your love for them is conditional.
00:41:46:14 - 00:41:57:19
Speaker 2
Your gratitude is conditional. And you want that money. That money isn't conditional to you, that money you want either way. And so we need to flex that muscle. We need to build that culture.
00:41:58:27 - 00:42:21:02
Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, nothing will damage your credibility more than saying and not doing that. And that's really what's at the meat of the matter is that in order, you know, the circular logic is that like start with I say I love my customer, therefore I do X, I reach out to my customer and say, Oh, you said you love us, we love you to write a review.
00:42:21:10 - 00:42:51:09
Speaker 1
They write the review. And then what happens to you? Continue to say that you love your customer? No. Then you're then the bottom falls out and the customer is like, Wait a second, they didn't actually mean it and they don't actually care. We are not actually a prize customer and then you increase their rates or it's just renewal time, whatever it is, you know, even in the like most like that's just, like the softest thing that could happen.
00:42:51:09 - 00:42:51:22
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:42:51:22 - 00:42:52:01
Speaker 2
No.
00:42:52:14 - 00:43:10:13
Speaker 1
Off this tree is the softest right coming from, like, a product marketing marketing point of view where it really gets amped up is where that customer, you didn't reach out to them, say, we love you, write a review, they reach out to you like your stuff's not working. We got a big problem. It's an emergency. I need this fixed.
00:43:10:13 - 00:43:39:00
Speaker 1
You told me during implementation in your sales that it was going to be X, Y and Z. I need it to be X, Y and Z. My whole everything's at stake now and then. And then what happens next if you don't deliver? That's a lawsuit like that is not going to be potentially like bankruptcy. And it should if you if you bait and switch or if you are not following through on your promise, there's just there's just no reason.
00:43:39:12 - 00:44:11:28
Speaker 1
It's so simple, but it's so hard. So I'm going to look at my notes so I stay on track. My notes for this podcast are solely to keep me on track. So we talk a lot about some like mis mistakes about like creating customer centricity and customer success and really caring about them, but is there ever a wrong fit for, for kind of some of the things that we're talking about doing this?
00:44:11:28 - 00:44:32:20
Speaker 2
I think it goes back to like you have to actually do the work. I find that customer centricity is a really great marketing toy, but it isn't necessarily. There's a lot of people who say they're customer centric, but they are not. And so it all it all comes down to brass tacks. It all comes down to like, did you actually say what you were going to do or did you just write a blog or did you just do a campaign around it?
00:44:33:18 - 00:44:58:18
Speaker 2
And I think that that's where the voice of the customer gets very loud. The customer is going to keep you honest. The customer is going to be the one that keeps going in to be like, you say this, but this has not been my experience. You say this, but this is not how you treated us. And so that was one of the things like when I was a HubSpot and working with the Hub fans, I regularly talk to them and be like, Where am I not showing up for you?
00:44:58:18 - 00:45:20:20
Speaker 2
How, what? What more can we do? How are we? Is there a love language we haven't tapped into? Is there something that would make you feel special that we haven't done? What does that look like? Because that's the thing, too, is the other reason why your customers are not their journey isn't linear is because they themselves also change.
00:45:20:20 - 00:45:42:26
Speaker 2
And so even if it should be a straight line, that person like, look, now there are customers who've been laid, they love your brand, they want to be customers. They literally can't afford you. And I have nothing to do with what you did has nothing to do with your product. It's it's it's not their mortgage and it's not food.
00:45:43:12 - 00:46:00:11
Speaker 2
And because it's not one of those two things, it's got to get cut. Now, as a brand, you could be there for them and say, like, we're so sorry that this is happening. We understand that we're going to have to lose you as a customer. We hate that. But let us know when you're when you're when you want to come back.
00:46:00:11 - 00:46:21:09
Speaker 2
Or maybe that's an opportunity where you share jobs. Like I had advocates who got laid off and I could have easily been like, Well, you technically can't advocate for us because you're not in that job anymore using the tool. But why would I do that when I can be like, Let me? Know what you're looking for? If I see anything, I'll.
00:46:21:09 - 00:46:37:19
Speaker 2
I'll send it to you. I didn't have to do that, but that's the right thing to do. And I think that being customer centric is the right thing to do. And if you come from it from that perspective of this isn't a marketing campaign, this isn't a play, this is just genuinely doing the right thing for people. And it works.
00:46:38:02 - 00:46:58:09
Speaker 2
It works. It may not be as fast. It may not be as profitable at first, but it works and it creates these long lasting tethers to your customers who are going to fight for you, who are going to be loyal, who are going to tell other people how great you are because they want other people who've had bad experiences to have a good experience.
00:46:58:09 - 00:47:17:02
Speaker 2
And it just it comes down to that connectivity and building those relationships. And if you genuinely care about people and that's why it's hard. That's why it's that simple. It's that hard is because I don't know. I genuinely don't know how to make people care. That's the way I wish we knew.
00:47:17:02 - 00:47:17:24
Speaker 1
I wish we.
00:47:17:24 - 00:47:35:20
Speaker 2
That's the hardest part. That's the hardest part of my job. Like, I've been very lucky. All my clients genuinely want to be better. They genuinely want to do things. So I'm like, I can totally work with that. But I think that's the hardest part. Like, I, that's the thing that I need to figure out. That's the part that I need to see is, is there actually a key to this?
00:47:36:12 - 00:47:43:11
Speaker 2
Is how do you make people care? That's that's probably the hardest part of my job is I don't I don't know how to solve that problem yet.
00:47:44:03 - 00:48:13:00
Speaker 1
You can't care more than your client. And that was something that made it really hard for me. Like in my twenties, being a personal trainer is that you cannot care more than your client and that's so hard because we want the best and we see the potential and all these things that we have to learn to just be like, I'll meet you where you're at and not also kind of, you know, to, to more of like this point of like one is it the wrong fit is like if it's the wrong fit, just say so.
00:48:13:07 - 00:48:35:19
Speaker 1
Yeah. And by just saying so, your already showing that you care. Now you can be like, look, we're the budget version of this. Like you are going to get four doors, four wheels, and that's it. We are a golf cart. We are not a mercedes luxury bus you get to it's yet. But by owning that and saying that's what you are, you are caring about your customers.
00:48:35:19 - 00:48:39:09
Speaker 1
I'm sure you just got to be up front and communicate it.
00:48:39:19 - 00:48:42:21
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:48:42:21 - 00:49:01:11
Speaker 1
Awesome. So so we're kind of like the last two of my questions, which are what? Okay, three. What, what do you think the future of marketing is versus what do you think it should be? And I feel like we've already kind of talked a little bit about that, but like in one or two sentences, like how would you say.
00:49:01:11 - 00:49:33:13
Speaker 2
I feel like the future of marketing is finding new ways to get attention, for better or for worse. I think we're seeing that in the worst way by stunts, names, people writing copy like you're 12. I don't understand. What it should be is marketing should go back to the basics. The foundations, the foundation of marketing hasn't changed. The ways to massage that foundation and distribute that foundation have changed.
00:49:34:04 - 00:49:54:18
Speaker 2
But that's I was talking to this to a friend the other day. Like, I'm so tempted to go on marketing Twitter and be like, can we just all just like collectively rewatch Mad Men and just like start over to start over. But it really is like those foundational ideas, those foundational like the four P's, like all that stuff.
00:49:56:04 - 00:50:16:12
Speaker 2
But we're, we're stuck in this. And I say this as we're about to watch the Super Bowl, and I know half the ads are going to have celebrities in them for no other reason than it's like insert insert celeb here. So things and things like that. But I want creativity. There's, there's, there are some brands, not every brand's doing things badly.
00:50:16:12 - 00:50:36:11
Speaker 2
I don't want to be brand bashing. There are some really creative brands. We're doing some really cool things. And so I hope that we I hope that in the future we see even more creativity. I hope we see even more creators coming out on the spot, showing really unique perspectives and showcasing what marketing can do in really new and fascinating ways.
00:50:36:11 - 00:50:46:16
Speaker 2
I'm very excited for the creators and and what that's going to look like. I'm very excited about that. So let's get makes more creativity.
00:50:46:16 - 00:50:48:12
Speaker 1
Yeah. Or even more creative gimmicks.
00:50:48:26 - 00:50:50:28
Speaker 2
I mean I mean, like, I'll take that.
00:50:51:07 - 00:50:52:28
Speaker 1
But I think like.
00:50:53:02 - 00:50:54:04
Speaker 2
I could get at this point.
00:50:54:13 - 00:50:59:03
Speaker 1
I mean, the grimace shake thing happened and I love to the creative gimmicks. Yeah.
00:50:59:21 - 00:51:02:02
Speaker 2
So but I love it. That comes from.
00:51:02:22 - 00:51:03:18
Speaker 1
Like the creator.
00:51:03:25 - 00:51:25:15
Speaker 2
That comes from the creators that did that. And I love that McDonald's leaned into that because they could have seen that as a crisis situation that they couldn't catch. And they're like, No, let's leave. Then I think and I think that that's also but that's also a customer thing, like your customers and creators who are customers finding new ways to tap into a brand.
00:51:25:15 - 00:51:29:09
Speaker 2
And then the brand being like, That's cool. We wouldn't come up with that. That's cool.
00:51:29:19 - 00:51:30:08
Speaker 1
Like, let's.
00:51:30:08 - 00:51:50:03
Speaker 2
Do more with that. I think that's really I think that's really great. And I think it shows the right kind of bravery, if that makes sense, to be able to say our customers are using it this way. It's actually really cool. Let's lean in because that can that can get gimmicky after a while, but those customers feel seen and heard, which never goes out of style.
00:51:51:01 - 00:52:00:05
Speaker 1
Yeah, for sure I am. All right. The last one. What is a question that someone should ask you but they don't?
00:52:00:05 - 00:52:29:00
Speaker 2
I think I don't know. I think I think at the end of the day, I do a lot of I think the question would probably be like, how do I balance not being professional on social all the time? And it's because my A.D.D., like I'm undiagnosed, but it's because like my brain is absolutely like a squiggly line, like hitting for different tasks over and over again.
00:52:29:00 - 00:52:49:15
Speaker 2
That's probably what should be asked, because if you follow me on Twitter, like you might get my, like, deep thought analysis of a Super Bowl ad, or you might see me like talking about how great David Tennant is. And like everything in between, I might just go off on a tangent about Star Wars. So it's not just like I'm not just the marketing girl, like I'm I talk a little bit about everything.
00:52:49:15 - 00:53:10:14
Speaker 2
And so I think that most people struggle. They either talk about work, but they're like self-deprecating about it and that's how they kind of like fit into that, into their life or they want to be a thought leader or that the other thing is, I don't want to be a thought leader. I'm just highly opinionated and I put it on the Internet and some people listen to me, that's like, that's all it is.
00:53:12:01 - 00:53:14:10
Speaker 2
But yeah, it's probably that question like, why do you do that?
00:53:15:08 - 00:53:35:16
Speaker 1
And that's not what that's perfect because that's literally what I was saying before we started recording was that like, my my Twitter is on lockdown. I only use it for a very close people to me. And it's because there is a balance of, you know, just like how McDonald's leaned into the growth shake. There was a way that could go bad and oh.
00:53:35:16 - 00:53:36:17
Speaker 2
Yeah, absolutely.
00:53:36:27 - 00:54:09:22
Speaker 1
And if you don't trust yourself not to go wrong with it, please don't. If you think that there is even a margin where you might say too much, then, then maybe don't participate. You have to be able to. And I'm not I'm almost like back in that we call myself an asshole. No, I just have I just I, I know that my perspective is very biased on where I live and that is not always well received nationwide.
00:54:10:19 - 00:54:36:17
Speaker 1
And I don't want to spend energy talking about it and I don't. And so I you can take that as any perspective because I said it so vaguely. I think you're looking at bigger me like, Oh, okay, I feel it. But you know, like it's just you have to know your your limits and your shrinks. Yeah. Are you Christina?
00:54:36:18 - 00:55:04:22
Speaker 1
You're very good at being personable. You're very good. Are you calling out and not punching down? You're very good, integrating some humor with some seriousness to it. So you have a lot of these drinks that are really great. And this is also why you're really good at community building, at creating relationships, is you know, how to translate that from who you are to an accessible form digitally through type and copy and all the other places.
00:55:04:22 - 00:55:14:23
Speaker 1
And that's a skill we should all practice. And while you're practicing, if you think you're going to put your foot in your mouth, just do it on a private Twitter account.
00:55:14:23 - 00:55:36:10
Speaker 2
I tend to well, I think the way that I do Twitter is if I'm going to say anything that I'm like, this is a hot take. It has to be something that, like, I would double down on. So if I say something that is even remotely controversial, I just I'm always I go on that app every single day prepared to die on a hill, hoping that I never have to fall on anything.
00:55:37:29 - 00:56:06:13
Speaker 2
But yeah. But then also, like, people can disagree with me. As long as you're not rude to me, I won't be rude to you. And like, if someone has a point that I disagree, it would be like I disagree, but this is how I feel. Or if they say something that's completely different, but I'm like, I don't agree, but that's valid, that's a very valid point because and then just ignoring trolls, if someone has less than 100 followers and does not have a real human picture and they talk trash on the Internet, they want to raise your blood pressure.
00:56:06:24 - 00:56:26:01
Speaker 2
They want to mess up your day. They want you to talk trash back. Just meet them. Don't block mute. I'm very specific about who I block. I mute basically everyone else because a lot of those people will take it as a trophy like you may be it to block them because they got to you just mute going about your business.
00:56:26:14 - 00:56:48:04
Speaker 2
It's going about your business. Yeah. Choose choose where you put your energy. I've met some of the loveliest people I've ever met. Like I have, like, lifelong friends from Twitter, some of my favorite people I met on Twitter. But like, choose where you spend your energy this always to center energy definitely I.
00:56:49:04 - 00:56:55:00
Speaker 1
I play in the kiddy pool of LinkedIn where it's a little bit friendlier. It's not always me.
00:56:55:21 - 00:57:07:23
Speaker 2
Pinterest is probably my favorite, like kiddy pool. I whenever I'm just like, I just need something, something that's like, lovely and esthetically pleasing and no one yelling at me, I'm going to go to Pinterest. Pinterest is like a nice, lovely place.
00:57:08:15 - 00:57:21:08
Speaker 1
Well, until you get too far into the like, motivational quotes and you're like, Oh, I feel something with myself. So, you know, there's there is the deep end of patrons. There is.
00:57:21:10 - 00:57:33:06
Speaker 2
There is. I haven't gotten there yet. Mine is mine is a lot of like dark academia and just like raining in Edinburgh is probably like half of my Pinterest. It's just like an entire like fall vibe.
00:57:34:03 - 00:57:35:18
Speaker 1
Love it a little cottagecore.
00:57:35:27 - 00:57:37:06
Speaker 2
Yes.
00:57:37:06 - 00:57:48:01
Speaker 1
Awesome. Well, I appreciate you and thank you so much for taking the time to record with me. You know, if people want to find you, clearly you're on Twitter, but you're I live there.
00:57:48:01 - 00:57:49:18
Speaker 2
I am there. Rent free.
00:57:49:19 - 00:57:53:15
Speaker 1
Yeah. How else can people find you or get a hold of you?
00:57:54:05 - 00:58:10:28
Speaker 2
Just search Christina Garnett on LinkedIn. My name will pop right up. You can also check out what I'm doing with my new business at Pocket CCO. I have fan of the fans podcast and I'm launching a podcast podcast called Woman's MBA at the end of January, which I'm really excited about. So I'm just doing all the things.
00:58:10:28 - 00:58:13:09
Speaker 2
Just Google me, awesome.
00:58:13:09 - 00:58:25:07
Speaker 1
I can't wait to see it all and so excited. Yeah. My name's Leanne. If you want to get a hold of me also on LinkedIn or info at Markigy.com. Thank you so much.