On this Episode of Markigy, I’m joined by Braedan Matson Jones, Performance Marketing Manager at Refine Labs, B2B Demand Generation & Pipeline Optimization Expert, Paid Media Consultant He will share how customer-focused strategies fit into (and dramatically improve) performance marketing, supporting how customers buy now. We discuss how to measure the impact of marketing in a that’s accurate instead of creating MQLs for the sake of it and coming back to the true purpose of marketing. Let’s dive in!
Every company relies on advertising at some point to attract their customers, but how do you make it work better?
Changing how you do performance marketing creates the opportunity to innovate your revenue engine in new and more effective ways with strategies that show real results.
Performance Marketing has many benefits like being creative and it’s an effective way to diversify your audience.
How do you drive real results? Because results drive growth, demand, and revenue. It can’t be done with brute force.
Today, we’re breaking down a few trusted tactics in B2B performance marketing that will help you innovate your revenue engine, create and capture demand, and generate value for customers.
In this episode of Markigy Podcast, your host Leanne Dow-Weimer welcomes Braeden Matson-Jones, Performance Marketing Manager at Refine Labs, to talk about the relationship between performance marketing, demand generation, and revenue growth.
In this episode, we discuss:
If you're thinking of incorporating demand informed Performance Marketing into your digital marketing strategy, we highly recommend it. It's a great way to diversify your audience and see results that you can measure. And who doesn't love seeing results? It’s what Markigy is all about, after all.
Meet the Host:
Leanne Dow-Weimer, Founder & Host of Markigy Podcast https://www.linkedin.com/in/leannedow
Meet the Guest:
Braeden Matson-Jones, Performance Marketing Manager at Refine Labs
https://www.linkedin.com/in/braeden-matson-jones
Links to content here:
Refine Labs: https://www.refinelabs.com
Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Markigy: The Science of Marketing Strategy in your favorite podcast player.
This episode was produced and brought to you by Reignite Media.
Markigy - Episode w/ Braeden Matson Jones
[00:00:00] Hi, I'm Leanne with Mark G, the study of marketing. I'm gonna fix that. Um, I am here today with Braden Matson Jones, who is with Refined Labs, and he has a ton of great experience that he's going to share with us. So just a get it started, could you tell us a little bit about your background? For sure. So, hello everyone.
[00:00:26] It's awesome too. Be here and thank you Leanne, [00:00:30] for having me on. So I got into this space a little over five years at this point. I originally went, I did a, an intensive. Full time diploma to school in Vancouver and basically got right into the industry. And so up to this point I've been in house and multiple different agencies.
[00:00:52] I've started my own even drop shipping stores and stuff like that. And so I like to say that I've, I've kind of [00:01:00] touched every area briefly of, of digital marketing, if that makes sense. And so Des Lean said, I'm currently at Refined Labs as a performance marketing manager. I'm stoked to dive into some of our topics today.
[00:01:14] Thank you so much for joining me. Um, when we met, you told me about how you like to make sure the strategy that you're using matches the tactics, especially with performance marketing. Can you tell us more about that? Yeah, so I think. [00:01:30] There's a couple different things to call out here. I mean, the, the first is that there B2B marketing in particular.
[00:01:38] I think there is. In all marketing, obviously we want to be able to know or say, with a high degree of confidence that that marketing is working. And I think what that often does is incentivizes tactics that are measurable as opposed to incentivizing tactics that we believe are the most likely to work first.
[00:01:59] And so that's, [00:02:00] that's potentially another higher level conversation. But to me what this boils down to is when we're thinking. Whether it's paid media or an organic content strategy, whatever tactic you, you are executing on has to be evaluated with KPIs, number one, that that actually are tie able to.
[00:02:20] That tactic. In other words, you're, you're able to measure them with a KPI that, that is actually influenceable directly by [00:02:30] that tactic. And then number two, KPIs that actually make, make sense. Which, which follow from that. So for example, if you, if you are running a lead gen campaign getting, you know, webinar downloads or something, which I.
[00:02:43] Tend to recommend for the most part. But if that's, if that is the goal of the tactic, then, then the way you measure that has to be in line with that. Like, you wouldn't measure a, a webinar lead gen campaign on engagement. You might use engagement as a proxy, but whatever that is, and so [00:03:00] another example might be brand awareness, or if your goal is to educate a, an ICP segment up with a, uh, About something to do with your product, then you should be measuring that with KPIs that align with that.
[00:03:15] So things like engagement and reach and cpm and are we reaching the right people, essentially? Yeah, definitely reaching the right people Is the, um, there's, there's, it's, [00:03:30] there's lots of goals beyond that, but what is the number one reason? Doesn't work for other people. Like the strategies that you use are, are pretty effective, but when you see somebody else try to do your strategy, but for some reason it falls flat, what do you think the number one reason is?
[00:03:50] If I had to pick one, I would say it's, I'm torn between measurement and consistency. And I'd love to speak, um, briefly if I can, both of them. [00:04:00] So, I mean, on the measurement side, I alluded to it before, but I'm a firm believer that the, that the best marketing and the marketing that is the most efficient in the works, the best over long periods of time is the hardest.
[00:04:12] To measure. And that's because the way that human beings make decisions is not linear and complicated and nuanced, especially in, in the 21st century. And so measuring the impact of marketing is not something that that can often be done, particularly in a B2B context, in [00:04:30] a straight line where we're able to say, down to the dollar, We spent this much on this channel with this tactic, and we got this return.
[00:04:40] And so, That, that's, that's number one. Obviously we have to measure marketing and we, we need to hold, we wanna be holding marketing accountable to meaningful impacts. But I think the way that that is often done doesn't lend itself to some of the tactics that, like I said, are, are harder to measure. So, [00:05:00] so that's, that's gonna be number one.
[00:05:01] And number two, as I said, is consistency. And I mean, this one. I think all of us have a varying percentage of shiny object syndrome, and it's really easy to get caught up in tools and new tactics and new channels. But the reality is, I think that if you, if you have consistency and discipline on something that you've proven out, That's really the, the name of the game.
[00:05:24] But a lot of companies tend to hire a team or a person and then [00:05:30] adopt this, this mindset or mentality that we just need to do a whole bunch of things all at the same time, because that kind of gives the illusion of progress as opposed to going all in on one or two channels and really building those.
[00:05:46] Over time. Definitely. And then to kind of take that a step further, what, what does consistency look like beyond just, you know, length of time? Because part [00:06:00] of what I see happening is that there, there does need to be some evolution. So there's consistency and evolution. How do those two interplay in your mind?
[00:06:17] I think I see. I would see that as a little bit of a. That feedback loop. So obviously if you're, you're committed to a channel, I think that like if you just take, for example, um, starting or [00:06:30] committing to LinkedIn or, or TikTok or something, and you say to yourself, Okay, I'm gonna start posting once a day.
[00:06:37] And you, you commit to that and you kind of detach yourself from the, the immediate outcome, the evolution of the type of content that you put out is going to start becoming informed, and it's gonna be related to all of the different signals and the things that you are seeing, what people are commenting on your posts.
[00:06:58] If you get messages asking [00:07:00] you to expand on something or people just saying, I. This, this one post, et cetera. So that refine, we would refer to this as positive signals. When you start executing on a tactic, you're gonna start getting some of these signals. And like I said, that could be new connection requests or comments or some of the things that you start observing after you launch a tactic.
[00:07:20] And those positive signals or negative signals, for that matter, are going to reinforce and start kind of dictating. The way that [00:07:30] you evolve. So if, if, if you find that a certain line of logic or topic or thinking or even content type video versus text posts, if you find that a certain thing is yielding more of a result, That you want consistently, then that's going to morph or going to impact the way that, that your execution morphs even right up to the point where if at a certain point you say, I'm done with a certain [00:08:00] platform, and I start focusing on another one for, you know, A, B, C, or D reason.
[00:08:06] Definitely. So there's this idea of avoiding brute force, um, in all campaigns, but also like performance campaigns. And how would you say that, you know, to the, to what you were just talking about with, you know, the feedback loops and, you know, taking that feedback and, and adjusting with [00:08:30] it. How would you say that, um, that ties into avoiding brute force?
[00:08:38] Yeah, this is a good one. So the place I would start here is I, I actually think that the changing your mindset, particularly as an executive or a person in charge of leading a marketing team, changing the mindset and, and your philosophy, [00:09:00] and even to an extent, you're an emotional attachment. Tactics is, is actually kind of the, the ground floor, if that makes sense.
[00:09:09] And so I think where it starts is shifting from this perspective that performance marketing, even by virtue of the fact that performance is in the name fixes everything, right, it's the sauce that is gonna make any meal tastes good, which is of course just not true. You actually have to have strategy and product market fit.
[00:09:28] And although the things that go [00:09:30] along with that first and so. I think shifting that, that your, your philosophical perspective, for lack of a better term, and then getting buy in at the organizational level for making sure that your foundation as a, as. A business from a business strategy, marketing strategy perspective is actually their first.
[00:09:53] And if you don't do this, what'll happen is whether you are in the leadership position or you're the person on the [00:10:00] ground running ads as you're going to be incentivized to do performance marketing, that doesn't work because the context of the performance marketing is sitting in is not conducive to it working because maybe you don't have proven.
[00:10:12] Maybe your positioning just sucks , right? Maybe there's a whole slew of reasons why marketing, and I'm using air quotes, or for people who are listening to this, I'm, I'm using air quotes. There's a whole reason, a set of reasons why marketing might [00:10:30] not work. And so nailing those down and changing your perspective on what marketing actually is.
[00:10:35] It isn't just performance marketing, that's a tactic. Changing that first I think is absolutely essential. Definitely one of the things I've, I've seen personally is people trying to accomplish the wrong. Set of things for the level people are in their, their journey with your brand, with the wrong tactic, right?
[00:10:59] [00:11:00] So, um, you know, an example of that would be like brute force in ads when you're trying to just be like, convert, convert, convert. And like people just met your brand, they don't know you a hundred percent. Um, and, and that's one way where I see people trying to brute force, uh, things and, um, You know, there's definitely something there that, um, hard to, to put into words, but you know, there, there's so many times where being [00:11:30] consistent lets you get past and getting the feedback, consistently doing the action, and then evolving with the execution of the action are like friends and, and teammates on the.
[00:11:44] You know, the journey towards reaching the goal. Um, you know, can you think of some clear examples in your recent work where, you know, just someone trying to, to make something happen when it's not in the right framework, [00:12:00] Um, where that occurred and how you helped shift it to be in the right framework or, or a conversation that kind of turned the tide in the right direction.
[00:12:09] Yeah, so I think what I'll lean on here just for the reasons of not calling out explicit right customers that we work with, but one of the, the really great things about being on the refined team is that, you know, at the moment we work with like 60 plus or so high growth B2B SaaS companies, and so a lot of the.[00:12:30]
[00:12:30] The, the data that we gather from that, um, gets published and what we're, we're called the Vault. And so we actually have access to a lot of these trends and, and, and, and standardized data that we're seeing across the organization. And so I would answer this from a broad perspective to say that in, in almost invariably with, with every customer that we work with.
[00:12:55] This conversation comes up because often what happens is [00:13:00] you have a, a marketing department or team that is not getting goals or revenue is stagnant, or companies are just not a hundred percent sure how to execute on. Uh, they know that they want demand gen. They just don't know what that looks like. And so what, what we see, and this is something that you could get access to via, um, the vault, as I said, with, we're publishing a lot of this stuff.
[00:13:22] Yeah. But I mean, generally what we see, we look at quarter over quarter revenue impact as well as [00:13:30] other. Or highly meaningful things like a C and a C payback, that that's, that's what we look at and, and we evaluate that. We like to evaluate that on quarterly or a quarterly basis, and there's countless examples.
[00:13:43] That we have, that I can't name by name, unfortunately, just don't given a relationship there. People will understand that, I think. But countless examples where we, we look at, okay, here's where you started. And then particularly for customers, I have one in mind, I wish I could name them, but who, if [00:14:00] you just, they've, they've been with us for so long that we, we get a lot of quarterly data and the graph is up into the right, not to an extent where we're seeing, you know, 500% quarterly over quarterly growth.
[00:14:12] A big part of this conversation is setting realistic goals, but if with, with consistency and, and doing the right things with focus and clarity over time. Marketing is a long term play and when we make this switch from purely lead gen to might do some [00:14:30] lead gen, but largely a demand focused, cohesive, tactical execution, and then measure that over long periods of time, that's where we really see.
[00:14:41] See the, the impact, but again, like I said, it always starts. With philosophical alignment, if that's not there, whether it's, whether you're working with a third party or in intern or internally, if you don't have that alignment with stakeholders, it's just not, It's not gonna happen. No, it's definitely not.
[00:14:56] And then to remind everybody, if you don't know [00:15:00] who or what refine labs is, is that it is a demand gen. Agency, Could you tell us more about, you know, um, because I think that that helps people understand that companies like why they would come to refine labs and how that intersects with the work that you do.
[00:15:21] Yeah, for sure. Thank you for, for allowing the, the plug. But we, this has been a very recent evolution for us and so if you know Chris [00:15:30] Walker, you know, we started back in 2019 on LinkedIn and so our labs is really this, this large progressive evolution. And so now where we are is essentially we, we work with companies to fundamentally.
[00:15:47] Operationalize and implement and make more efficient your revenue engine. And we're thinking about this fundamentally now as revenue r and d. And so this is, [00:16:00] this has been Chris's brainchild over the last little while, and we're finally really putting that into for fruition in a way that that makes a lot of sense.
[00:16:10] To executives because the, the, the piece here is that companies spend a lot of money on product r and d. Ideally, but I mean, most B2B companies do research and development for making their, their product better, but nothing on revenue research and development, which is really this, this [00:16:30] opera operational framework of where is, what are the things that we know we're working and what is the framework for getting from beginning to fully integrated.
[00:16:40] And so that's really, What our mission as refined labs is, is to fundamentally change the way B2B companies think about and go to market. And there's, there's a set of other offerings and, and things that I'm, I'm not gonna speak to now cause we're not here to just sell our fine lives with people. Google and go there for sure.
[00:16:59] [00:17:00] I just wanted to bring it up because I, that you go about performance marketing within the context of a demand gen agency. Is going to be different than your stereotypical like, uh, you know, just ad agency. There's so many, there's so, so many, and they all do it. It's kind of ridiculous. Hey, it's like, it's amazing.
[00:17:23] Everyone has an agency. It's credible. Newspapers have agencies now , right? Like it's literally [00:17:30] everyone. And you know, there's so many ways to go about it, but there's not so many ways to win at it. And. Yeah, there's, there's just a lot of money spent. So, you know, thinking of like ways that people can incorporate the context of platforms and where someone's at in their buyer's journey to capture that demand, you know, What are some ways that you approach that?
[00:17:56] Yeah, I, I love this because I'm, the, the [00:18:00] reason I'm at Refin in the first place is because, I mean, I've, we, we, we have this term the MQL hamster wheel, which is, as a marketer, any, any marketer listening to this, you've know exactly what I mean. And I've been in that seat where, In other agency past lives where we have a client and we create the ebook and we promote it on LinkedIn optimized for downloads, and then those immediately go to the sales team so that those downloads can get sold by a sales team to people who aren't ready to buy because they [00:18:30] probably never even read the thing, right?
[00:18:31] And so this MQL hamster wheel is this, this sensation of being measured on something that ultimately maps. A way that is fractionally above useless to revenue, right to the thing that actually matters to the business. And so the way that we think about this at Refined from a demand generation, kind of going from the broad like revenue r and d down to the demand gen from a tactical perspective, we think [00:19:00] about platforms and the content on the platforms as as needing to be native and congruent with one another, which is why, you know, we do.
[00:19:08] Use Google search, right? In a way to capture demand, right? We think about demand creation channels and demand capture channels. And demand creation channels are places where people go to connect and learn new things, and maybe even just see pictures of their family's cats. Or if you're on LinkedIn, uh, find, find new connections, [00:19:30] learn about whatever is happening with, with your connections, education, whatever that.
[00:19:35] And then demand captured channels are places where demand has been created outside of Google, right? Like if for the most part you go to Google to search for something you know you want, you might have a really high level. Query in mind when you don't really know what you're looking for. But for the most part, you go to Google because you, you have something in mind that you're after [00:20:00] and that demand has been created elsewhere.
[00:20:02] You go to Google or Bing or G2 or whatever it is, and you look for that thing itself, and then that's where the demand gets. Captured. And so that's kind of the broad distinction that we use between the types of channels and in the way we, we'd like to use paid media is to educate our ICP in feed, so our, our customers ICP in feed with information that is necessary for those people to make a [00:20:30] buying decision.
[00:20:31] So if we have a customer who's, let's say, selling mostly to CFOs, , it's what does this product do for CFOs that is compelling enough that CFOs purchase the product for the organization. And then, you know, all the parameters like, uh, employee count and industry and geo right? But so all those parameters plus the content strategy comes down to what are the things that are most important for [00:21:00] CFOs to know about us.
[00:21:02] And the framework that I like to use here is kind of, if. Starting at the highest level of kind of, um, I guess you could say problem awareness, category awareness, solution awareness, and then, and then actual company awareness. And depending on where our customer sits in the market, in their category, you could create content.
[00:21:26] To educate and inform based on each of those, but really like what [00:21:30] at the zoomed out 10,000 foot view, it's a matter of communication at scale with people who care about the things you're communicating at the ad level, and then evaluating ad performance based on specific KPIs. And then evaluating marketing as a team sport.
[00:21:48] I like to think about marketing as a team sport on team level outcomes. Just like you don't evaluate a goalie on team level outcomes, that's silly. You evaluate a goalie on goalie level outcomes and you [00:22:00] evaluate the team on, well, are they winning championships? Right? Yeah. And that, that was definitely one of my biggest frustrations as a freelancer and micro agency or owner, was that.
[00:22:12] Like, I would do everything I could on, on one channel and my client would want that to directly impact revenue. And I had to say to them, I'm like, Look, I can send them to your website. I can send them to call you, but if no one answers or if your website is [00:22:30] not gonna convert, that's on you. I can't be measured.
[00:22:36] on what the rest of the funnel looks like. If you don't have a funnel in place, or a flywheel or a process or something that answers this need and, and can capture it, I can do everything I can do at the top of the funnel or you know, I can try to capture it in the middle of the funnel, but you have to have the other pieces.
[00:22:55] It doesn't exist in a vacuum. . And [00:23:00] so on that note, um, looking at it marketing as a team sport, which I love because, you know, there's just so many, so many sports analogies that I could, I could do . Uh, I love it. Um, you know, without taking that too far, uh, what do you think the future of marketing and, you know, especially with the, the kind of.
[00:23:22] part of the tea that you're in, the the paid performance. What, what do you think the future is? What's it look like? What should it look like? Ooh, [00:23:30] is vert is verse ought distinction there. Well, in terms of where I think we're going from a, maybe I'll answer it kind of from a broad and then specific to paid media perspective.
[00:23:40] So from a broad perspective, and I mean we're already kind of there and I think it's just gonna get more and more, which is creator led. Marketing as opposed to kind of this, this, you know, we post on our LinkedIn company page, Why does no one like our content secret? It's cause it sucks, but I think it's company.
[00:23:58] Cause no one cares [00:24:00] about the things that you're saying, Sorry to it, to you, but I think that we're moving from really that kind of, um, very, very, If we're thinking, you know, the madman era of of, of very kind of corporate focused, which there's still a large extent of that, but the reality is with social media, we, we have much more of a creator led kind of marketing and creator and community led marketing that we are seeing now.
[00:24:28] And I think that's only going to [00:24:30] continue Amplify. And from, So that's kind of the, the, the broad perspective. Maybe that's a little vague for people, but I think if you, if you're on LinkedIn at all this, you, you'll know what I'm talking about, right? I mean, people engage with creators and specific people before they tend to.
[00:24:47] Engage with companies just because we're human beings and I think we tend to engage more with other human beings as opposed to conglomerates first if we have the choice, right? . So that's kind of number one. The community and people is just, is [00:25:00] only going to get to get greater or have a bigger impact.
[00:25:03] And then from a paid media, or I guess we could say tactical perspective, i, I, I think it's, it's just going to continue to. Harder to measure things very specifically at the microscopic level. I don't know if it's the hardest it is now, but I can't see it getting easier just simply because privacy tends to get more strict, which is a good thing.
[00:25:29] Let me [00:25:30] be clear for all of us. But privacy laws tend to continue and continue to make it harder for marketers to measure things, which again is good for all of. And channels continue to increase the number of platforms where people are continues to go up into the right. And so I think the number of places where people are combined with how hard it is to measure people's.
[00:25:55] Activities on their, on those channels and that [00:26:00] influence on revenue that I think is, is going to continue to, to get harder. So that's kinda at the, at the specific level. And then, you know, the metaverse is gonna get thrown in here at some point. I don't know how I feel about it, but, uh, that's inevitable, I'd say.
[00:26:13] Yeah, I think the, the metaverse is a whole, whole thing, um, that we could talk forever about. Um, But I, I think that, you know, you really touched on a couple things there that I wanna highlight is that the number of platforms [00:26:30] are going to niche down, like you're gonna be able to see. Who your people are based on what platform they're using and how they're using that platform.
[00:26:42] And I feel like that might become a substitute for some of that conversion data that we're, we're after. Um, I, as a consumer especially appreciate privacy laws. Um, yes. [00:27:00] As a marketer, , I appreciate privacy laws. Um, but you know, wouldn't it be nice? And, and, but that being said, there's still no such thing as the perfect attribution model.
[00:27:17] There never will be. We should just be psychic. That's my, my vote is, yeah, psychic attribution, , a hundred percent preaching in the choir. And that's, that's really, really important to hone in on, especially [00:27:30] for executives who potentially haven't spent a lot of time in the weeds or in the platform. Like you will never get a perfect picture of what is driving revenue and customer acquisition down to the dollar.
[00:27:44] And so, The, the, the question, and you have to answer is, how much track, how much accuracy do we want to sacrifice at the alter of good marketing? Because again, at the end of the day, the world class marketing is hard to [00:28:00] measure because world class marketing communicates with real people in a meaningful way, and communicating in a meaningful way is hard to measure.
[00:28:07] And. It really just comes down to a choice that, that you have to make as a business leader. I'm not saying don't measure things. We, we have to measure things. We're a fan of Yes. To measure, yes, you, you do and you should. Uh, but it just comes down to, okay, well how are we going to adopt or change our measurement model?
[00:28:26] A lot of B2B companies are still stuck in the nineties. Like, how are you [00:28:30] going to change it to account for the way that people buy stuff and make decisions today? Yeah, definitely. And I mean, You know, it goes back to that, that MQL hamster wheel, right? Just because you're optimizing for clicks. If those people don't convert, then you're just getting a wide swath of people that are just entering and leaving.
[00:28:51] They're just, they're just turning. They aren't even completing the journey. And so, um, I feel like we could also talk about that one forever. [00:29:00] Um. But there's there. That's the cool thing I think about the future of marketing is there's going to be so many exciting aspects to it, and we're really gonna see that holistic.
[00:29:11] Interplay between departments and channels and tactics and strategies, um, and human-centric marketing, right? That's what, that's what I'm about, at least, is that if you don't know your people, then what are you doing? Uh, what's, it's mind blowing. How many companies kind of say that they're [00:29:30] buyer-centric, yet it's like, Okay.
[00:29:31] How do you know that, that this ICP segment is actually the icp? How do you know that the things that you're saying and ads and paying for from a messaging perspective, how do you know those people actually care about that? And often it's just, Well, it's our best guess, and like I'm just, I'm so obsessed with Get the Foundation right.
[00:29:48] First, like reason from first principles. Advertising doesn't, doesn't, doesn't fix. It's not the bandaid. You can just like slap on not having positioning and, and if it is the bandaid that you're [00:30:00] choosing, please experiment with it. Please have a and b test. Please have like a wide swath of things that you can evolve forward with if, if that's your chosen way to do it.
[00:30:11] And sometimes you have to be scrappy. You know, you, you, that's true. Gotta, you've gotta make stuff happen. You can't s. Cash flow to wait until you know everybody perfectly, because the perfect strategy is the one that's done right. Because yeah, if you have a perfect strategy and [00:30:30] sitting on it, sitting on a shelf, it's, it's useless.
[00:30:34] So there, there is that, that transition in that inner play that I, I really wanna. Emphasize because I care very strongly about it. Uh, that you can do both there is, there is that that interplay and, um, you know, just make stuff happen. Make people happy. Figure out what they like and then be ready for it to change.
[00:30:57] Cuz everything's always changing. That's, [00:31:00] yeah. That's a great, that's a great summation. awesome. Um, I don't think I have any more questions for you, but I definitely, uh, appreciate your time. If someone wanting to get in contact with you or they wanted to continue the conversation further, what are some ways they could reach out to you?
[00:31:23] Yeah, so Barn on the best places is LinkedIn. So I'm probably, um, [00:31:30] respect to my parents for naming me Braden and like the weirdest possible spelling. So, love you mom and dad, but what were you doing? So if you just, I'm prob my point there is I'm probably the only Braden who spelled this way, but I could be wrong.
[00:31:42] LinkedIn. I accept all, all connection requests. Just please don't pitch slap me or I will not reply. , but I'm always down to come on a show or have a chat. If you have a problem you're struggling with, hit me up. I, I don't. Again, unless you pitch lap . Unless you pitch lap. [00:32:00] Um, and then so that if people are only listening, it's spelled B R A E D E N.
[00:32:07] Correct. And then Mattson Jones. I'm Leanne Dow Weer fellow hyphenate. Um, And if you have any questions or you wanna hear something else talked about on this podcast, uh, feel free to reach out to me also on LinkedIn, uh, or you can email me@leanmarketg.com. L e a n n e [00:32:30] m a k M a R K. Wow. M A R K I G y.com.
[00:32:38] I've been using it for five years and today is the day I can't spell it. Um, this has been an episode of Market and I hope that you will join us more in the future. Thank you. Thanks everyone.