Ryan Williams is the Head of Demand Generation at Nucleus Healthcare, where he draws upon his engineering background to find the marketing solutions that build the best bridges to the customer. He joins the show to share how marketers can home in on the best solutions for their organization, using the full palette of options available to them.
For every marketing problem, there are multiple solutions. Your job is to find the best solution for your organization.
Ryan Williams is the Head of Demand Generation at Nucleus Healthcare, where he draws upon his engineering background to find the marketing solutions that build the best bridges to the customer.
He joins the show to share how marketers can home in on the best solutions for their organization, using the full palette of options available to them.
In this episode of Markigy, Ryan and Leanne discuss:
The actionable takeaways mentioned in this episode are:
To learn more subscribe to Markigy with Leanne Dow-Weimer.
This episode was produced and brought to you by Reignite Media.
[00:00:00] Leanne: Welcome to Markigy The Science of Marketing Strategy, a bi weekly podcast where all the cool marketers discuss their favorite marketing strategies, study by study. On this show, we feature marketing risk takers who believe long term wins for the customer equal long term wins for the business too. How?
Human led marketing. The combination of where science Creativity Strategy Meet. Or, as we also like to call it, Markigy. Let's break down the marketing trends, myths, and methodologies together. I'm your host, Leanne Dow-Weimer. Let's go! Hey there, this is Leanne with Markigy, and today I'm joined with Ryan Williams, Director of Demand Gen at Nucleus Healthcare.
Ryan, thank you for joining me. Could you just jump into it and tell me a little bit more about your background?
[00:00:54] Ryan: Absolutely. And Leanne, thanks for having me on the show. I'm a big fan of it. I listen to it all the time. So honored to be here. Just a quick intro on me. I live in Hot Springs, Arkansas. You've probably never heard of it.
It's about 45 minutes Southwest of Little Rock. I've been married to my wife, Markie, for about six years. We have two boys, Lawson and Reese. Lawson's four, Reese is two. So life is chaotic with two little boys. Professionally, I come from the agency world. I worked at three marketing agencies right out of college.
Did that for a while. Then I wanted to see if the grass was greener. I went into the B2B SaaS world, did that for a couple of years. And most recently I am working at Nucleus Healthcare where I'm the director of demand gen. So we're focused on talent acquisition for RNs, LPNs, life sciences, healthcare, you name it, so that's where I'm at today.
[00:01:38] Leanne: Awesome. So when we were talking before, you know, one of my things that I'm really into is kind of like the ideas of like holistic marketing and, you know, what, how we really define demand gen. And that's, that's definitely a recurring theme because And Everyone takes it differently. How do you see it?
Like, like how, how do you make a demand generation move and, and tell me more about your thoughts behind it and kind of problems that you've seen that inspired you to have this
[00:02:06] Ryan: vision? Absolutely. I made a LinkedIn post a few months back and I think it got a lot of, a lot of traction for good reason. But even as a demand generation marketer, I feel like demand gen is the new marketing manager, you know, from 10 years ago where company will, will hire a demand generation specialist and they give them everything under the moon to do as it pertains to marketing.
So I think it's a blessing and a curse. It's a sort of a general job title. I like it in many ways because it allows me to do a lot more than just paid media or SEO or demand capture. I get to kind of be that, that well rounded marketer again. But I think it's kind of a curse for people that might be earlier in their career and they, you know, they're hired as a demand gen specialist, again, similar to the marketing manager where they're asked to create graphics and run SEO and run paid social, manage the website and everything.
And so I try to keep that in mind. Again, I like it at this stage of my career because I specialized in paid media, especially in the agency world. I've always done paid media. I've always done marketing operations. I've always done SEO. And so I feel like it allows me that bandwidth to be able to do that.
So that, you know, again, it's, it's a blessing for me, but I think anyone that wants to get into demand gen, any company that hires a demand gen marketer, be really clear on what you need. Functionally from that, from that role. If it is paid media, express it in the, in the job title or description. If it is SEO, express it.
If you're not big enough of an organization to hire an SEO specialist and a content marketer and a paid media marketer and a marketing operations person, just be transparent about that. Because I think the worst thing you can do is give someone a vague job title like DemandGen and ask them to do virtually everything as it pertains to marketing.
So that's kind of my take on it. Again, I'm weird and I like doing all things marketing, including operations and paid media and SEO. So I like it. But yeah, I think it just depends on the organization and what they're looking to get out of that DemandGen marketer.
[00:04:00] Leanne: Yeah. And I mean, I personally, you know, when, when people ask, you know, what are your strengths and weaknesses?
Well, mine is that I really struggle to stay in a siloed lane. So like integration between like SEO and demand gen and all the facets to me is, is like required. I don't think that the output. The results are nearly what they could be if there isn't some carryover. Now, I'm not saying that like one person should be doing the job of 15 people, but I think that that plays into your point that they need to be realistic about what their needs are and understanding what 40 hours a week really like can realistically do.
[00:04:46] Ryan: Yeah, I think it's really not fair to the the individual too. If you hire them to Be a demand gen marketer and you have content needs, but then, you know, 3 months and you're asking them to run your paid social. They didn't have clear expectations on the front end. Another reason why I wanted to go into demand gen, again, it's because I like doing all those things.
To your point, I didn't want to be doing the same thing each and every day. When I, early in my career, I was an SEM specialist and then I was a senior SEM specialist, and then I was a manager of paid search. And so I did Google ads, PPC, paid search all day, every day. The reason I got into marketing in the first place is because I was originally a mechanical engineering major and realized that I didn't want to just do that all day, every day.
And so I joined marketing literally just because I wanted to do little bits of everything, be focused on one overall thing, which is growth. And not just, you know, building bridges on AutoCAD. So again, that's why I chose DemandGen. It's, it's unique to the individual and what their career aspirations are.
Yeah. Spot on with what you were, what you were getting
[00:05:47] Leanne: at. Do you feel like coming from a STEM major kind of enabled you to? Be like to think through like all of your paid media roles more strategically, because that's something that I felt very familiar to me was when I was spreadsheets, right? I can't escape Excel.
I will never escape it. It is just whether it's Google sheets or whatever. Spreadsheets are going to be. You know, what the whole world is seemingly based off of. So do you, do you see kind of any relation there or even from building something physical and to building something intangible?
[00:06:24] Ryan: Yeah, I'd go back to building bridges because I, I think that's the project in college where I was like, I'm probably don't need to be a, an engineer.
My bridge crumbled. They were like the spaghetti noodle bridges, but I had friends and classmates that stayed up hours, you know, stayed up well into the night, worked on it for weeks. I tried to throw it together within like 30 minutes. And so that was my miss. The thing that I took away from being a STEM major in college was the ability to be a problem solver.
I think that's what I thought I wanted out of, out of engineering. I think that's what I was blessed to have found with marketing. And that goes back to, you know, being in demand gen. Sometimes I'm solving a paid media problem. Sometimes I'm, I'm solving a CRM lead source attribution problem. Sometimes I'm solving a problem as to website needs more organic traffic.
That's my approach. I'm a growth marketer, but I'm also a problem solver. And so if there's nothing else that I took away from being a STEM major, it's just the ability to solve problems and, and knowing that there's not just one way to solve it. And I think that's what is so exciting. It's also again, blessing and a curse.
We're talking about a lot of those, but you know, there's not one way to solve any marketing problem. I think some people think that there is, and they get into trouble trying to solve it the same way, going from one organization to another, trying to do the same thing, and it doesn't work, but. I think that's, you know, I don't think it makes me unique, but I think that's what that's how I try to approach it.
How can I best solve this problem in the present moment with the resources I have at hand?
[00:07:50] Leanne: Yeah. And, you know, I think it's really great that you called that out because when you, you like diagnose what the problem is, then you can then figure out like based on the personality of the company. Cause I, I almost see companies as like their own little people.
Because they've got their background, their biases, their preferences, the way that people work together. And I know that we're, as marketers, notorious for saying it depends. But it does! Like you can't, you can't blanket something for everybody. Nor should you. Because if you did, then your marketing would suck.
they just, it wouldn't differentiate you. It wouldn't really build value. It would just be more noise. And so when you think about creating like long term like value and short term wins, you know, what are some of the ways that you see like demand gen being able to do that or, or just some scenarios where you interpreted a problem a certain way and you had a certain
[00:08:46] Ryan: Yeah, I think long term And this is really just, I feel like I'm speaking to, you know, demand gen marketers earlier in their career.
Again, use demand generation, which is a very generic term. I think we think it's very specific. You're creating demand for a company, but there's so much that it entails. Long term, you have to be willing to step out of just doing paid media. Just doing SEO, just doing paid social, just, you know, distributing blog content.
You have to be able to step into, again, that problem solver mindset. I have a problem. Maybe it's with a paid media campaign. Maybe it's not generating the traffic or the relevance that you want it to. But maybe it's a tracking issue. Maybe you're doing all the right things. You've created the perfect campaign, but you can't prove it.
Maybe your CRM is not set up for success. So I think long term, you have to think about the things that I'm doing right now are going to benefit the organization long term, not just adjusting a Google ads keyword, not just tweaking a page title on the website, not just creating this one video, you know, explaining our new product feature.
You have to have that long term mindset. I am doing things. at a micro level that are going to impact the company at a macro level. And I think that's where you create your values as a demand gen marketer. Yeah, just being able to step and holistically look at the entire problem at hand and not just I have a content distribution issue.
Okay, well, you're also going to potentially have a tracking issue. You're also going to have an audience issue. That's how I think about it very holistically.
[00:10:18] Leanne: Yeah, and I mean, I think that some of the myths or mistakes that people in smaller teams make So by smaller, I mean under 10 people, is trying to do everything all at once.
And, you know, you have to incrementally, like you said, pick out the priority and solve for the highest need first, and then think through the rest of the repercussions and involve those in a methodical way so that you aren't just leaving something completely out. You know, it would be very easy to leave out an attribution if you're adjusting keywords or you're putting a new UTM in or, or not putting a new UTM in.
Things like that that, that... In much, much smaller or startups, they can often overlook doing those teeny tiny details that add up over a long period of time.
[00:11:11] Ryan: Yeah, I think it's also very tough to be a marketer on a small marketing team. In 2023, because of LinkedIn, you have all these companies building in public.
We see them using all the shiny new attribution software. We see them doing new product launches every, what seems like every quarter. We see them doing podcasts internally. We see them putting out new video content all the time. And especially as a, and I've been on those small marketing teams, I've been on teams of three teams of six teams of 18, which are, you know, small in comparison to some of the, you know.
The larger organizations that we all follow, and it's easy to say, I should be doing those things rather than doing the small micro level things that are going to move the needle for this organization. I think it's really easy to get in your head about that. It's also tough whenever you've got the CMO or the CEO or the board that is also following these companies, consuming content, consuming podcasts, sending them to you via Slack, via teams saying, Hey, we should start a podcast or why are we not on TikTok?
Or why, why do we not have more blog content? Why are we only publishing one blog a month? So it is a perfect storm for marketers right now. I truly feel that. We also have the economic times of the last few years. We've had all the layoffs in tech. We're being asked to do more with less. And so to your point, when you're sitting there, grinding through a campaign build, you're building a new UTM, you're mapping out something in a CRM.
It might not feel like you're contributing, contributing that much. But you actually are. And so I think it just requires being hyper focused on the problem at hand, the solution that we're striving for. Sometimes you have to put your blinders on and just grind through that marketing strategy or that the execution of that strategy.
But it's easier said than done. I struggle with it myself, but I think we all do.
[00:13:01] Leanne: Yeah, I agree that we all do. I think that about a year ago, I met a new marketer. They just finished college and they were like, Oh, I want to do marketing. And it was their first marketing job and what they thought marketing was and what the daily activities associated with actual marketing is, were they just weren't as sexy as they thought it was going to be.
And that's the thing is, is that you do have to do the boring grind. And to make an effective marketing campaign because that's part of it. It's not all making a fun, creative thing, which is certainly, you know, like that happens by all means. But there's, there's meetings, there's internal alignment, there's...
You know, conversations about who does what there's logistics that you have to execute on. That is a part of a large part of the job.
[00:13:54] Ryan: Yeah, I think we, we've all kind of fantasized it in our minds where we're going to be sitting in rooms with whiteboards and, and Sharpies, not Sharpies. You know what I mean?
Expo markers and brainstorming and collaborating and doing product launches and brainstorming and recording videos and. You know, I think we all kind of daydream about those things, but that's why I'm really grateful for my agency experience. You know, that's when I feel like I was really in the trenches and every day was a grind.
Every day was building new campaigns. Literally we keep talking about UTMs, but I have a hundred UTMs in the agency world. It was so important back then, but I'm so grateful for my time there because I think it, it set me up for success later in my career where I was comfortable putting headphones on, listening to some music and just Getting after it rather than thinking every day it was going to be sunshine and rainbows and, you know, sitting in a conference room with LaCroix and Expo markers.
So yeah, I think you're spot on there. Yeah.
[00:14:54] Leanne: Fun tip that I have to share, but should you ever confuse an Expo marker with a Sharpie? All you need is rubbing alcohol, just nice and
[00:15:02] Ryan: easy. I need to tell that to my kids. Hopefully it comes off paint and walls because we're in that stage with the boys, but we just keep the Sharpies away.
Yeah,
[00:15:11] Leanne: yeah, hide the sharpies, but also rubbing alcohol or nail polish remover or just painting over it. That's all the tips from someone that's, that's seen many friends go through the sharpie phase. I hid my sharpies. We're
[00:15:23] Ryan: buying magic eraser in bulk. And we're also having to repaint every, like, you know, just touch ups like every few months.
So, you know, that's what we get for picking white walls with boys. It's a feature,
[00:15:33] Leanne: not a flaw. So there's times where, you know, someone's progressing from paid media to actual demand gen to more sophisticated kind of expert level kind of marketing motion. What are some ways that, like, that make sense or doesn't make sense or, or what are some things that you like think of when I say that to you?
[00:15:56] Ryan: I think of just the bad rap that paid media still gets. Again, I, my career started in sales in the agency space, but I quickly got out of that and started doing paid media. We were being hired by companies of all sizes, home services, automotive, healthcare, SAS, you name it, to run their paid media. You know, it's hard to justify hiring an outside agency, at least back then to run organic social or write blogs.
They wanted something that would directly tie to revenue, which is. Paid media, they have a revenue problem. They have a lack of new customer inquiry problem. That's why I did so much paid media. And that's why so many agencies get hired to do paid media. So when, when you're talking about paid media and holistic marketing and demand gen, I can't help, but think of just the bad, the bad rep that, that paid media still has, I think it's a necessary evil personally, but it really just depends on the organization, you know, take Airbnb, for example, they put out the press release.
There was some PR campaign around it that they stopped spending any money on paid media. That was what a year ago, a year and a half ago, right after COVID, but they were already Airbnb. They were already a household name. They had built their company with paid media. And then they just say, Hey, we shut it all off or whoever did the PR campaign.
We shut it all off and we did not see a dip in leads. Okay, well, think about the SaaS company that just started. Think about the startup. They have a product. They're trying to pump out organic content. They're trying to pump out, you know, blog content, podcasts, anything that is brain awareness, top of the funnel, demand gen tactics.
Well, you can't wait when you're a startup who has investors, who has a board and you just say, Hey, we're just waiting for inbound traffic to come in. We're just going to wait for revenue to come in. Sometimes, you know, you get in a situation where that is the case and I've worked at companies that built their company basically solely on demand capture and organic content, but the majority of companies have to layer on paid media to that organic strategy.
So I still am one of those guys that. You know, people say paid media is dead and Google ads is dead. It's not, or else we wouldn't be running them at the scale that we are. Every organization that I've been to is running it. Most people that I've talked to are in demand gen, their organization is running paid media as well.
So. Yeah. Anytime I hear that, I think everyone's gonna say like, why are you guys still running paid media? But it's still around and it's still well, and it's still a great marketing channel, just like every other channel. It's just, it needs to be used in its preferred environment to deliver the expected result that it can generate.
So, hope that answers your question. I went off on a tangent.
[00:18:39] Leanne: No, it's a great tangent, because I think that, you know, through career progressions, maybe it's easy to start, like, it's easy to start off drinking the, like, organic Kool Aid, right? I love organic. I clearly participate heavily in organic. And that is where, you know, as myself as an individual, that is...
Realistic. But I'm not a startup. I'm a person. And that's different. And even though I said earlier that the, you know, companies have like their own personalities, I think of them like a person, they're still not a person. And it's very difficult to realistically grow a company without some sort of investment, whether it's somewhere there's gotta be time, money, effort, and outreach.
It is cheaper to do Thank you. Outreach as a marketing maneuver at a certain point than it is to have keep adding more and more and more salespeople. Your founder needs to be the first salesperson, they need to be the first marketing person, they need to really be able to jump off that ledge and bring people with them.
And then, you know, create a parachute, not just jump off a ledge, please, for safety, don't do that. Disclaimer. Hashtag safety. But organic and inbound and these things that, that we have this like altruistic, you know, way of assigning them some better virtue. There's still a right way and a wrong way to do all of it.
And there's still general, like, opt in that people do when they respond positively. to paid ads. It's not that you're like, you know, infringing upon their, you know, stream. And if you are, then you did a bad job as a marketer. Maybe, maybe you need to think about how frequently your ad is showing or, or what if your ad just is kind of irrelevant, but there's ways to make it all cohesive and integrated.
And Enjoyable, or at least just not piss people off.
[00:20:42] Ryan: Yeah. Here's what comes to mind. So if you're given, say it's Q4 and you're being asked to forecast a marketing budget for 2024, you're probably being given specific goals, KPIs. It's very rare that you're going to come to the table and say, here is our organic growth strategy to meet all of those goals.
And again, I'm not saying that organic is not important. If I'm being asked to deliver a marketing budget and forecast. I will typically make sure that we're spending it as efficiently as possible, which might include contractors or content, SEO, organic growth, inbound, those types of things. But it is rare that someone will deliver a marketing plan and forecast.
And maybe it's more marketing hires. Maybe it's people in the seat, but you're still spending money to grow the company. So I think, again, the term organic is thrown around very loosely. And so I completely agree with you. I just, I think we need to step back and, you know, just think about. The place that paid media has, the place that organic has, and how organic is it?
Cause you're probably paying for someone to run those tactics and create that content and produce it. So I jumped on the organic bandwagon. I wrote a lot of content about it. I still think it's an essential part of, of demand gen, but there was a narrative sort of like the Airbnb one where it's like, Hey, we stopped all paid ads and things are great.
It's like, well, we're great. You're Airbnb and not a startup. So that's my stance there. It's also slightly biased because I'm a paid media marketer by trade, but I'm going to die on that sword. I
[00:22:13] Leanne: think it's completely fair, right? Because for a very long time, total dollars spent by Airbnb in paid was significant.
It wasn't zero. It was a large amount over a large period of time. in That was before they got really established and more mature and IPO and all these other things. So, you know, I think when you call it a necessary evil, I think that's very, very accurate. I don't, I don't know, I don't even call it just a necessary function.
And I would like to kind of transition people's opinions of it from, you know, intrusive to just a part of things, you know, it's like the circle of life, you know, there's... Highs and lows and different qualities to all of it. So clearly, you know, paid media is a necessary fit for almost all stages of company.
Once it becomes optional because you have such a massive reach, then yeah, drop it. But you know, one could also argue that releasing a press release. is a paid placement, you know, but we'll, we'll kind of all simmer down on that part. Where do you think the future of marketing is going and where do you think it
[00:23:25] Ryan: should go?
It's hard to not say AI in my response. I was one of those people that whenever chat GPT was released, I spent way too much time on it. I was just so fascinated by it. And I was thinking about how I could supplement what I'm already doing. It was the same thing whenever, you know, Google ads switched from manual CPC, again, paid media guy talking when they implemented more of their automated bidding strategies, when they implemented more of their recommendations, when they implemented more of responsive search ads and things like that.
A lot of people panicked and they were like, Oh, they're going to, you know, they're slowly doing away with PPC people. People have said, you know, there's been the same narrative that content marketing is going to go to the wayside because we have AI now. I don't think that's the case. I just think of the term supplement.
How are you going to supplement what you're already doing to eliminate the busy work and increase the output and the value that you bring to the table? It was the same thing with paid media, same thing with, with automation and bid strategies. That's how I leveraged it. I no longer have to manually update bids on a daily basis to make sure that my ads are showing.
I was so happy when I didn't have to do that. I didn't think that it was going to take away my value. I was thinking, how can I spend that time that I was using to manually update hundreds, if not thousands of keyword bids on a daily basis? Because now Google is doing it for me. How can I go spend that time to better serve the company, better serve the client, better serve?
The marketing team, I think it's the same thing with AI, you know, whether it's email copy, whether it's A B test variations, whether it's blog outlines, whether it's, you know, ad headlines, press release drafts, you know, no one would, hopefully no one's sending out press releases from AI. Please don't.
Terrible decision. But I think You know, we have an opportunity to leverage these tools that are all incredible, by the way, there's a ton of great technology out there. How can we leverage it to better utilize our time? We all want to create value. We all want to be valuable people to our organizations, to our companies, to our network.
How can we leverage that to be a better resource and reduce the busy work? All the tedious, nitty gritty stuff that we have to drudge through on a daily basis. How can we supplement it? I think about it in terms of. Supplements, literally, DHA, omega 3s, multivitamins, you know, we supplement those if we're not getting enough fruits and vegetables.
That's how I think about AI. I definitely think it's the future of marketing, but I think we have to be smart as to how we utilize it. And not think that we can completely do everything with artificial intelligence and expect it to be personalized and humanistic like. Marketing should
[00:26:05] Leanne: be. Yeah, I agree.
It's, it's a very handy tool. And you know, there's only, there's different buckets that it's good at and different things it's not good at. In like a keyword ad, you know, you've got like very few characters. There's only so many combinations of characters or words based off of, you know, one concept that you're like keywords are stemming from.
There's only so many iterations of that. And that makes sense that aren't complete gibberish. And like, it can speed up the process if it just like spits out, you know, 20, let's say, and then you're just like, no, no, no, yes. And it just imports it, right? That's one way that it is reasonable to use it without it impacting the quality, but it still needs that, that verification from someone who knows better.
My soapbox about this is like, If you think about, let's say that you're doing search, like Google Ads, and you see all of the, like, weird, like, things that people somehow came up with that were, like, results that your ad showed up for, all of those things that you turn into negative keywords, like, you gotta just understand that all of this needs to be babysat, and, you know, the weirdest thing that a person comes up with will be just as weird is this.
If not weirder, then the weird thing that AI comes up with. And you gotta, you gotta quality
[00:27:29] Ryan: check all of it. Here's a good use for any AI tool. If you've started your workday, you've got your music going, get your headphones on, you've had two cups of coffee, you're typing way too fast. You reread your sentence or your email copy or your email draft, and you're like, this does not make sense.
It made sense in the moment. Copy that thing, put it in chat GPT, say, will you rephrase this for me? So it doesn't sound like I had two cups of coffee. Your intentions were pure. You had a good idea. It just doesn't really make a lot of sense. Whenever someone reads through it, that's not on caffeine. You're supplementing it.
Like you're not email. Another prime example, you know, you're writing LinkedIn content. You've got a hundred pages worth of content that you have come up with yourself, which I feel like a lot of people are doing, Hey, I wrote this post. It did really well. I want to reuse it, but I don't really know how to start.
Can you help me rephrase this content? The idea was still yours. You wrote the original post. It is giving you a different perspective, maybe using synonyms, things like that, that you might not have thought of. So that's my AI soapbox.
[00:28:33] Leanne: Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm here for it. You know, I think that we all, it's a part of the landscape and we need to learn how to use it appropriately and it is definitely going to impact how marketing is done.
It already has. It has been growing this whole time, you know, so I, I agree there completely. I'm going to move on to the next question, which is, what is a question someone should ask you, but they don't?
[00:28:58] Ryan: No one asked me what kind of music I listen to or play. And I feel like it's a no brainer. Maybe I just have too high of expectations, but I am clearly a music guy.
If you're, if you're listening to this, I've got a guitar in my background. I've got another one over here against the wall, which is not safe with boys. They'll just knock it down. We've already had one broken guitar, but I have a drum set back here. So this was supposed to be my office. It turned into my music.
Man Cave. You can't have it all. You can't have a music room and an office if you work from home and you have kids. Yeah, but I would love to talk about music if anyone ever wants to ask. But I love indie music. I love anything from the 80s and 90s, alternative, rock, indie. I'm a church drummer. I listen to a lot of worship music.
I'm always playing it because I have to practice it and memorize it. I like bluegrass, folk. Country has grown on me just because I live in the South and, you know, everyone plays it, but it's also probably because I'm getting older. But yeah, I would love to talk about music. That's something I don't talk about enough, but big music lover over here.
Awesome.
[00:30:02] Leanne: Yeah. I picked up on that when you kept saying, let you start your day by putting on your headphones and your music. So I think that, you know, I, you're going to have to say like kind of name two or three songs that are on your playlist most recently.
[00:30:16] Ryan: I'm a big fan of the band Mute Math. Okay. So they've got a lot of great songs, Notice, they have Spotlight.
It was in that Twilight, which I don't know why they ended up in a Twilight soundtrack. You know, it doesn't really make, you know, mesh well with the genre, but New Math is one of my favorite bands, Darren King, the drummer. Always listening to them. Always listening to the Strokes. Yeah. Anything from the nineties.
Green Day. I don't listen to a lot of Green Day lately. You know, just kind of randomly. So those are, those are two or three.
[00:30:44] Leanne: Awesome. Thank you. So if you're inspired to plug in some headphones and do some work, maybe try out some of those songs to get in the marketing mental space. And then if people want to find you or ask you more questions or, or hear more about what you have to say, what are some good ways for people to get in touch
[00:31:02] Ryan: with you?
LinkedIn is by far the best place. If you just go to linkedin. com and you type backslash Clinton, yes, like Bill Clinton, Clinton, Ryan Williams, you will find me. My parents named me Clinton, but they called me Ryan. Ryan's my middle name. So I go by Ryan. So it's been a confusing mess, but if you look up Nucleus Healthcare, you can find me.
If you look up Ryan Williams, or if you just want to search Clinton, Ryan Williams, you will find me there.
[00:31:28] Leanne: Awesome. And my name is Leanne Dow- Weimer. You can also find me on LinkedIn or if you have questions or comments, please email them to info at Markigy, M A R K I G Y dot com. Thank you so much for joining me today, Ryan.
And thank you everyone for listening.
[00:31:46] Ryan: Thanks
[00:31:51] Leanne: for listening to Marketgy, the science of marketing strategy. If any of the strategies we talked about today inspired you to learn more, try them. Remember, the perfect strategy doesn't exist. Only the one that gets done. Subscribe to our show on your favorite podcast player to make sure that you never miss an episode.
Thanks for listening. Until next time.