Justin Rowe is a LinkedIn marketing expert whose company, LinknLearn, now, Impactable, was acquired in 2021 after serving over 1,000 clients in 30+ countries. Specializing in B2B growth, Justin currently serves as the CMO of Impactable, a LinkedIn ads agency that manages over 150 B2B brands.
B2B brands are hungry for growth - but are they approaching LinkedIn and other paid channels the right way?
Justin Rowe is the CMO of Impactable, a bonafide LinkedIn marketing expert, and a startup founder whose B2B marketing agency was acquired in 2021 after serving over 1,000 clients in 30+ countries.
Learn about his journey from the restaurant business to B2B marketing, and how a side hustle turned into a full-fledged LinkedIn outreach agency that ultimately pivoted into paid media offerings and sold for seven figures.
Being scrappy and figuring things out for himself has followed Justin through his journey, and it has been quite an eventful one!
This episode dives into what happened when LinkedIn threatened to sue his agency and suspended their ad account. As a result, Justin changed the company name and ultimately repositioned the agency brand and narrative.
Spoiler alert: they came out successful on the other side!
Justin’s agency also went through a major business pivot, switching from outreach services to driving most of its revenue from paid media services.
Success doesn’t always come in the form of linear growth, it ebbs and flows. Justin discusses what he’s learned along the way, sharing what he would have done differently in retrospect.
Finally, this episode breaks down what it really takes to drive growth on digital and how brands should be looking at different channels (hint: never put all your eggs in the same basket!).
In this episode of Markigy, Justin and Leanne discuss:
The actionable takeaways mentioned in this episode are:
To learn more subscribe to Markigy with Leanne Dow-Weimer.
This episode was produced and brought to you by Reignite Media.
[00:00:00] Leanne: Welcome to Markigy, the science of marketing strategy, a biweekly podcast where all the cool marketers discuss their favorite marketing strategies. Study by study on this show. We feature marketing risk takers who believe long term wins for the customer equal long term wins for the business to how human led marketing.
The combination of where science creativity and strategy meet. [00:00:30] Or as we also like to call it Markigy. Let's break down the marketing myths and methodologies together. I'm your host Leanne Dow-Weimer. Let's go. Good morning, this is Leanne Dow-Weimer with Markigy, and today I'm joined with Justin Rowe.
He is amazing, and I wouldn't stop short of calling him a LinkedIn Ads guru. Uh, oh, the face says that's a little generous, but I think it's true. I think that you've done some really cool things, and I can't wait to hear about them. [00:01:00] Could you tell us a little bit about yourself
[00:01:02] Justin: and your background? Yeah, thank you so much for having me on here.
Uh, we got to chat previously, and... Uh, I can definitely say that you are my kind of marketer, um, so I appreciate being on here. My background is I actually came from the restaurant industries, um, for most of my career and I was, uh, and then I stumbled onto LinkedIn. I kind of developed this weird little lead generation process.
I was just looking for a job and [00:01:30] better opportunities, but I was sending constant connection requests and messages to HR managers, recruiters. business owners, and I ended up stumbling into an investment opportunity where I became a managing partner in a restaurant franchise. And then I came back to LinkedIn, realizing how powerful it was, started a little side hustle to build a LinkedIn outreach agency, scaled that up.
To a seven figure agency and actually sold, uh, the majority [00:02:00] ownership, um, in that about a year and a half ago, uh, stayed on to continue to run and scale it and have pivoted into the founder CMO role. Um, and we pivoted the agency into a LinkedIn ads agency. And then I've kind of found my home in just all things marketing.
Um, I really, really love just marketing. I do all of our marketing for our, uh, company and it's pretty much my main job and my hobby. Uh, so I'm a little obsessed with it. Awesome.
[00:02:29] Leanne: [00:02:30] Well, there's, there's so many things there and, and I love nonlinear pathways because They are just robust in a different way.
Um, I think that there's a lot of actionable insights that you probably got from being the, you know, having something that you had ownership and, and autonomy with, and then looking for the way to make that be successful. Um, while you were doing [00:03:00] that, what were some of the notable, notable, I can't talk, notable.
things that, you know, maybe were like questions that you were trying to answer or like, uh, hypotheses or, or like a guiding north star. What were some of the thoughts that led you as you went throughout these journeys?
[00:03:20] Justin: Um, so yeah, some of the, there are, there are similar thoughts that kind of have helped guide me or have stuck with me throughout a lot of this.
And one of the big [00:03:30] ones was, so in the restaurant industry, I kind of hit this point where I kind of burned out and I really had this like coming to Jesus moment where I was like, I can't do this by myself, I have to figure out how to hire better, train better, build teams better, because only with a team can I accomplish like a lot of this stuff and the realization that most of the time, if not always the team Um, [00:04:00] I need the team more than they need this job.
Like they could find another job equal or better paying it. You know, if I find decent human beings, it's actually really hard for me to replace them. Um, and so I, I changed my outlook back in the restaurant industry and that kind of has guided over into the startup world. Um, cause a lot of it, almost no matter what you're selling.
It's a people business. It's, uh, you know, unless you're inventing an app and you don't have to worry about even then you have developers [00:04:30] and you have it, it becomes a team and it becomes a human kind of, um, thing where if you have the right priorities, if you find decent human beings, if you treat them well, invest in them, um, that's the same in almost every industry that it's one of the big keys to success.
So I'd say my people approach in building teams, investing in people. Um, and being a good human being, uh, that, that definitely has been kind of one of the, the guiding themes throughout this. [00:05:00]
[00:05:00] Leanne: Yeah, I, I love it because I, you know, as you mentioned when we were first starting this episode was that there's a ton of alignment between how we approach business and, and marketing and the way that we think about certain things.
Um, you know, I, I agree that. We need other people on our team more than they need us at times, um, and I think the fastest way to get someone to be looking for a new job or just [00:05:30] way out of rage or just not try their hardest or be ineffective is to treat them like a number and be like, you're replaceable.
That is the. Like, the statement of death is when you treat people like they're replaceable.
[00:05:45] Justin: Uh, definitely. And that's, and that's one thing I would say early on in my career, in my early 20s, I was not very good at that, and I thought that they were, like, these people are numbers on a spreadsheet to help me reach my goals, and then, [00:06:00] obviously, yeah, that's not the case.
So, um, so that was definitely one of them. The other just, I guess, thing, kind of hypothesis or kind of guiding principles or thought is just that the realization that almost no one, if anyone, has this figured out, um, because that was one of the big things, like pushing into kind of the startup world and figuring stuff out, it's just like the burdens on you, like, this problem exists, there's not a known solution to your knowledge, how do you solve it?
You go out and you research, [00:06:30] you come up with things, like, And there's, there's, there's rules as far as like, and in marketing, this is, this really applies because there's, there's the way people have done things and it becomes like accepted and then it's like handed down as a new marketer, you YouTube this stuff and you Google this stuff.
And you learn how to do it that way because that's like what's out there and you think you're supposed to, but then eventually, the more you get into either a startup or marketing, you realize, like, there's not really any rules, there's best practices or there's like most used tactics, [00:07:00] but then if you start, if you learn all the tools in the tool belt, like you can recreate them or you can rearrange them, you can try things, um, and you don't need permission for that, um, a lot of times.
And so just the fact that there's way less structure and rules and most of the founders, That I've talked to have no idea what they're doing. They're smart in like one area of life, and they're making the most of it. They were opportunistic, and they have a level of, you know, I, yeah, they have a level of right place, right time.
They're gonna take advantage of it. [00:07:30] But in most other areas of life, like, they have no idea what they're doing. They're making mistakes. They're just making it more confidently, and they're okay with failing, and they have thick skin. But the fact that no one else really has, knows what they're doing, um, it's a comforting thought to me.
Yeah, um.
[00:07:46] Leanne: There's, there's a fairy tale of how business should be done that we, you know, maybe are told or indoctrinated or learn in college or, or just, you know, think that's out there. And what, what the truth is that [00:08:00] I've uncovered, at least in my career, is that there's a lot of ways and there's a lot of guesses and there's a lot of experiments and that you have to get comfortable.
Letting go of this idealized perfect thing that may or may not exist and get more comfortable with saying okay, this is where I'm trying to get to and this is the, you know, the question marks in, um, you know, the Sock [00:08:30] Gnome meme and, um, you know, how am I going to get from A to Z and then you just chip away at it and you continually try, um, now as far as, you know, When you were, like, scaling this agency that you had, AI, and kind of pivoting, tell me more about some of the things that, that led to that, or that were involved there.
[00:08:56] Justin: Um, yeah, especially in the pivoting, that wasn't just something that [00:09:00] happened overnight. Um, the, the short story is that I, so part of it, it was a, it was a variety of things. So part of it was, LinkedIn outreach at the agent at that time, that was our main core offering. It was basically like building a castle, a castle of sand on the beach.
Like we were actually building a decent business. We built a seven figure business, but it was almost like, there's no way that that's a sustainable business for like the next 10 years. It was at any point LinkedIn could come out with regulations that restrict [00:09:30] that or sweeping, whatever that really limited our ability to help clients or their trust in it.
So we started, I started personally dabbling with, uh, LinkedIn ads as an offering, and also I was looking for ways to kind of, yeah, diversify our offerings so that we didn't have all of our eggs in one basket. Um, that was also during the time that we were going through the, um, acquisition process. And I thought for a second that I was going to sell that [00:10:00] outreach agency.
And then I was going to start out with LinkedIn ads agency on my own. I quickly realized around that time. That the outreach agency wasn't going to be worth, uh, any as much if I didn't attach the LinkedIn ad section to it, I already had 25 clients. Um, plus they had just rolled out. Um, the biggest regulations they ever did while I was in the due diligence process with the buyer.
So it basically like kind of really hurting that business. So that, and the big restriction was used to be able to send out a [00:10:30] hundred connection requests a day on LinkedIn, do significant outreach, and then they limited it to a hundred invites per week. So dramatically reducing kind of the outbound motion you could do on LinkedIn by yourself.
So at that point in time, we closed the sale, we pulled up all of the marketing to outreach and made a hard push into the ad side. Uh, so it was at that point a pretty hard pivot because I stopped every single marketing dollar or there was no [00:11:00] new cold campaigns, uh, advertising our outreach. Uh, we would still mention it in retargeting ads, but all of the majority of our marketing dollars and all of our cold new outreach was only, uh, for LinkedIn ads.
And then from there over the next year and a half, we pivoted from LinkedIn ads being less than 10% of our revenue to being 95% of our revenue. Um, and so that was, that was kind of the big swing. And also around that time that we sold and pivoted to an ads agency, we [00:11:30] also, Our name was Lincoln learn, uh, when I sold and.
Um, LinkedIn sent us a cease and desist letter saying that LinkedIn Learn was too close to LinkedIn Learning and we sold similar, uh, stuff. They seized our LinkedIn ad account and they threatened to sue us if we didn't, uh, change our name. So, we also had to rebrand.
[00:11:51] Leanne: Yeah, not ideal. But, but not a death knell, right?
Like, not great, but not impossible, right? [00:12:00] They, they didn't sue you and win. Um... And, and so, you know, finding the silver lining there. Uh, but like, you know, lawsuits are, are a part of, a very real part of operating a startup or a business and, uh, either knowingly or unknowingly stepping into a pile of mistakes.
Yeah. Um. And so, you know, I think that as mentioned earlier, it's the people that you need to rely [00:12:30] on and getting comfortable with making mistakes is that is that resilience and grit to get through the mistakes instead of just giving up or conversely understanding and being mature enough to know when.
It's time to pivot. It's time to pivot. Um, so,
As the person that was in charge of the marketing motions, Um, during this pivot, What kind of, [00:13:00] what, What things kind of like stuck out to you? Like I want to hear more about like how that went. And I know it's not on, um, You know, necessarily , the, the questions I provided. Um, yeah. But, um, you know, just if we were gonna distill into a strategy and we were gonna call it my strategy during this pivot rebranding phase was led by and, and like this question or assumption or hypothesis, um, [00:13:30] what were some of the thoughts that kind of went into your head during
[00:13:33] Justin: that time?
Um, so the, The first thing, I mean, the biggest blow, the biggest blow to us was that our LinkedIn ads account was a big revenue driver for us, um, and it's not just that they took the ads account, it's more the data that it represented, like there's You know, 10, 000 people in our retargeting layer. Uh, there's all these warm [00:14:00] prospects that, you know, we're being converted on a regular basis.
And we basically lose, it's almost like if someone, if it's like, if your sales team lost their CRM overnight, like someone just took it, like, and so they had all these deals in the pipeline. Like if they keep working at, like they were closing like clockwork. So we lost that. And then. We had to change our names who are also losing like all the brand recognition that we have bought.
So my first order of action, um, during the pivot was and during the rebranding, cause [00:14:30] they're kind of tied hand in hand at that point was to make sure whatever goodwill and branding we had in Lincoln learn would transfer over to impactable. So we ran a lot of. Like trying to make the best of it, uh, that the rebrand was kind of like us being reborn as a LinkedIn ads agency, kind of made it into almost like PR announcement type stuff.
It was. Lincoln learn is now becoming impactable, impactable, formally, um, Lincoln learn. We, we try to tie it to the story of the [00:15:00] acquisition that. Link and learn this, you know, uh, bastion of LinkedIn lead generation was purchased by David heavy investor and is rebranding as impactable with better tools and deeper insights and, you know, financial backing.
So we, we did try to make the best of we, it was me, I tried to make. the best. There was no marketing department. I tried to make the best of the situation I had. Um, and I, I thought we had good stuff going for us. [00:15:30] Like, I think the story makes sense. Like, it wasn't because we got bought that we had to change our name.
Um, I also tried to, um, kind of poke fun at it too. Like, LinkedIn actually, uh, threatened to sue us and we must be like big enough to be on their radar. And that's kind of a badge of honor. I make, I would make posts about LinkedIn. Um, so from a marketing perspective, I tried to tie it to a story. I tried to weave into a narrative that painted us in the best light while being [00:16:00] honest.
I did try to own the fact that they were threatening to sue us and made the best as I could there. And then what I did, I also doubled down on my LinkedIn organic presence. So for a while and going into the acquisition, I went through a phase where I was starting to separate myself from the brand because I didn't necessarily know if I was going to stay on after the sale.
Um, after the sale and it was clear that I was going to stay on, I kind of reattached myself and doubled down. Uh, so I [00:16:30] really started pushing hard on my LinkedIn organic. I, I fired up a YouTube channel, tried to get that going off the ground. So because we lost our main paid ad channel and that would take some time to get up and running, I doubled down on, um, social media.
And some more other short term efforts. In the meantime, we, we increased our Google ad spend, dropped down our LinkedIn ad spend, doubled down on organic, um, and tried some cold marketing pushes, um, for email just to try to get, [00:17:00] uh, cause we lost a lot of our long term pipelines. So we're trying to get that going and also get us some burst in the meantime.
I think the other thing we did really well is, uh, we went through a phase where we're trying to be as efficient as possible. Um, and so what I did is I dropped our Google ads down to the core, uh, the core terms for brand competitor in our searches. I tried to get as efficient as possible with the linked in [00:17:30] and we also want really wide with, uh, with the retargeting.
So I feel like. It's almost like a ship and a sail, like the, the winds changed and we got everyone on board to kind of like change us in the other direction and catch whatever wind there is. We also increased, I increased the marketing spend as far as a percentage of our, um, as, as a percentage of our revenue.
And one thing I, I did very intentionally to try to speed up that process. Is we had some [00:18:00] additional funds from after the purchase. So he, he moved some money into the account for the sole purpose of like helping accelerate some of these changes. And I poured a, an extra amount of that into marketing and trying to steer us into the LinkedIn ad side as fast as possible.
And for about a year, it was almost like every outreach account we lost, we were, we were gaining in ads. So there's probably a year after the sale where. We didn't actually make progress as a company. We were, [00:18:30] we were going through that pivot and we were gaining what we were losing. And then it wasn't until like a year later that we were back onto the growth path.
So I think that was, that was a really hard thing to deal with as well. Cause you could spend a whole year, literally not necessarily making any progress from a revenue standpoint, but you're making progress from a pivot that will lead to better dividends down the road. So. That was a little tough.
[00:18:53] Leanne: One of the things that, before you called it out, was that you attached a story to [00:19:00] the rebrand.
And I think that that is one opportunity for so many organizations out there is to attach a meaningful, transparent story. And where this flops is if, say, a billionaire investor just takes over something because they, for funsies. Um, that's going to alienate people, but when you have a relatable problem that you're [00:19:30] solving for that people that are your ICP are going to relate to and are familiar with rebrands, because the, the joke is that every new CMO comes in and they go to the rebrand, but one of the things is, is that rebrands can make a huge difference.
If done right, like they can dramatically impact the bottom line in a positive way and that's why [00:20:00] people love them. Uh, that and, you know, if you neglect your brand for too long, it becomes stale and you, it, it becomes, you know, that backfill. Um, but I, I really do love the, the transparency that you did during it because you were like, hey, this is why, this is the story, like, this is it.
You know, this, this is to represent where we're going in our future, but you, you did something with it, instead of just, [00:20:30] if we build it, they will come.
[00:20:32] Justin: Yeah, yeah. That doesn't work very well that way. No, and,
[00:20:38] Leanne: and, but we're here to talk about strategies that do work. Yeah. Um. It is true. So, you know, at this point, would you say that it, you know, it, it worked?
It sounds like it did. From the outside.
[00:20:56] Justin: So I definitely would say we had a [00:21:00] successful pivot. We pivoted our entire business model and offering into a new direction through a rebrand, a new domain, and a new name, and the loss of an ad channel. Um, and we came out on the other side, and we are stronger and moving faster now than we were before.
So I definitely think that was successful. Um, and probably usually the other big question that I ask myself is, Okay, well, did I, did I make any really big mistakes in that? Or did I learn something from that? [00:21:30] Um, I do think I, I wish I had owned more of our own, like, data sets probably previously. Um, I never really thought I'd lose an ad channel.
So I never thought of that data as like not being like something that we owned or would ever lose access to. Um, but we were using, uh, some less mature CRMs before. So now I feel like we, we have HubSpot for our pre sales and we have a lot more data [00:22:00] now for our current like pipeline and clients. So I think that is actually good because one of the things I did that I'm really happy with is I had all of, I had all of the info on anyone who's ever booked a call with us and any client we've ever had.
So what, even though I lost all my past LinkedIn audiences, I brought my, the data I did have in the audiences. And at first we were advertising LinkedIn ads, yes, to cold new demographic. But also our warmest audience is people that have heard or worked with link and learn. [00:22:30] Maybe LinkedIn outreach wasn't a fit or maybe it was, but ads was something.
Um, so having, being able to kind of like multi use the data you have, I think is really good. Because the other thing that we would, we would do a lot of times is we'd get them to our website for one thing, whatever our core flagship offer is. And then we'd use retargeting to show them the other things that we do, or the different angles or the different types of offers.
And I think that really worked well, but I think, um, I, I do think, like you [00:23:00] said, weaving it into a story versus just like, okay, we're going to be an ads agency and we're just going to start marketing ourselves that way. Like kind of making it into a story and tying it into something meaningful because the other, the other part around that, that we did was our why, like, so I was a scrappy founder who ended up having to learn how to run all my own marketing channels because I couldn't.
Afford to pay experts to manage them. Like usually the management fees are pretty ridiculous, like are, are high for, for your [00:23:30] normal startup. And I was a thrifty founder who said, okay, fine. I'll just learn how enough to be dangerous. Do it myself. I'll pay for like some consultations and audits to check my work, or they'll do the setup and then I'll try to take over and then they'll look over my shoulder.
So I did all that. But then when I was doing our pricing, like I always like to have options for like, scrappy startups, like here's a good, an entry level offer to get started. Um, you know, and no one else is gonna have a management fee, like under a thousand. But if you're [00:24:00] just wanting to get your feet wet and get you started, like we'll get you set up with strategy, basic creatives.
So having like an entry level offer for the people that like the offers I wish existed for me, that was a big part of our story too. And I wove that into the marketing. And that ended up being like a good 60% of our Um, our, our client load was a lot of these like people spending 2, 500 or less a month on an ad channel that didn't have any other options.
So I felt like that was, that was something else good that [00:24:30] we, we did that worked really well, I think. Yeah, I mean,
[00:24:33] Leanne: I think that the temptation for startups is to always try to go up market, but what is neglected is down market. And we've seen. Other organizations or like SaaS and some platforms actually have, you can, you can have success in both, right?
You can have success in either or, you, there's success to be had when you position to answer a real problem. [00:25:00] And you find ways operationally to make it efficient for yourself at the same time. Um, Shopify, huge into the teeny tiny people and organizations, right? And they're, they've grown robustly, and it's not because they ditched the solopreneur or person that wants to sell, like, leaf cuttings in the parking lot.
They didn't ditch those people, they kept them, and they also [00:25:30] answer, you know, other bigger, you know, organizations at the same time now. Um, or they just kind of kept to, to where it works. Um, and so that, that comes back to that, that fairy tale, that storytelling that we are, you know, kind of indoctrinated with about how to run businesses.
And it's not always to go after the giant corporation and that's where the deep pockets are and that's how you're going to make it. You can make it serving people that have a [00:26:00] problem that needs to be solved.
[00:26:03] Justin: And that, that, that honestly, that's actually really true, like the misconception and even around like just pricing in general, um, some people just, I think, I mean, so I came from the service industry, restaurant industry, and then into this.
So that was the first thing I felt was a real advantage for me. I was selling items like and making margins like our pennies and dimes and nickels. [00:26:30] off of things like I was comfortable with selling things in higher quantities and thinner margins and, and we had fixed costs. So coming into this world, I, I took that mentality also like I'm, I'm, I'm more comfortable with going with the scale play at a lower price and serving those that you don't, aren't really as served.
Um, and so I also think that was a good advantage for us that we almost treated it as. Kind of like a service [00:27:00] industry mentality, um, with those kind of margins, uh, I think definitely gave us advantage, but it's completely counterintuitive to what everyone's saying. Like you should, you know, I should have been charging five times what I charged.
Um, but I felt like if I did that, I wouldn't have been able to get the experience I did and then like move up market. But yeah, I don't think I'd ever want to move so far up market that I don't have like. Uh, an entry level offer to like the scrappy startup. So I feel like if I lost that offer, I'd be [00:27:30] losing like why I really got into this, what I'm really passionate about in the first place.
It's not just about making as much money as we can. Like, I really have a heart for like scrappy startups who don't have like affordable quality options. So, yeah, I think, I think that's a part of it too.
[00:27:46] Leanne: Yeah. I mean, I think that. That's, that's valid. Like, you, you have to have a reason why you show up to work.
And otherwise, you're just kind of a cog in the wheel. That... You know, that's okay [00:28:00] too, but as long as you can find meaning in your life, wherever you choose to find meaning, whether it's in work or out of work, you have to be able to find meaning somewhere and somehow. I fall in the bucket of, I spend so much time working and I pour my whole heart into it.
I really care deeply about the results that I get for others. And so for me, I need to be able to find meaning in that work life that I do, um, as well as outside of work, that's how I [00:28:30] operate, but that's also part of what allows me to, uh, care enough to get, like, really great results in a way that is customer led, that is long term, that is efficient, instead of growth at all costs, or, um, you know, necessarily, necessarily.
Putting people in financial situations. Like if a startup needed, there's, there was no lower level entry level point for them to get these services. What are they going to do? What are their options? They [00:29:00] can go into debt. They can get VC money that maybe they're not ready for. They don't understand what they're committing to.
They can't give up on their dream. And none of those feel great at the end of the day. Um, there's ways that those can evolve into great situations later, but. You know, if, if you could help a lean startup stay lean and get the results and grow, they'll be loyal to you when they're ready to spend
[00:29:27] Justin: more.
That's true. Building [00:29:30] those relationships and, yeah, I, and I completely understand, like, people find value in different things and there are some people, I tell people too, like, I don't think I would have gotten into the startup world if I had a decent paying job where I thought they valued me and I felt like I was paid a fair wage for, you know, I brought to the table.
I got into this out of, I feel like necessity. I was looking for extra money for a new coming baby. And I felt like I was kind of in a place where I wasn't like. [00:30:00] Really valued, uh, like I should be. And so I did it more out of necessity, but if I had a good paying job where I felt like I was valued, I probably would have never started a company.
Fair
[00:30:11] Leanne: enough. Let me tell you that there's plenty of good paying jobs that treat you where you're valued in marketing.
[00:30:18] Justin: I didn't know marketing until I did a startup. So I think after this, or if I stopped this, then yeah, maybe I'd have a shot at a good job.
[00:30:26] Leanne: Yeah. I chose marketing for these, [00:30:30] these reasons.
Um, you know, I was, I was at a place where, uh, I was doing more direct customer care and interaction in sales, um, in different kind of verticals. Um, and I knew that I would be most effective being the support to the salespeople and being able to look at it from the top level of where they needed help or assistance or ways that they could get inbound in demand happening.
Make that cold. Outreach a [00:31:00] little less chilly.
[00:31:02] Justin: Um. Combination when sales and marketing can, can actually work together. Yeah, it
[00:31:08] Leanne: comes back to building value for people. When we're talking about like, let's, let's kind of narrow it down. When we're talking about like LinkedIn ads and retargeting and a lot of the strategies that you implement.
When, those are a great fit for, you know, your entry level pricing is a great fit for people that are just starting out. But [00:31:30] when would it be like too soon or not effective or what are some mistakes you see people make specifically with either pivoting or LinkedIn ads or a combination of both?
[00:31:44] Justin: Um, I do think it's, uh, you know, if LinkedIn ads is even a good fit for them and if they're trying it for the right reasons, um, because I get this too, like, there'll be people I like to share posts where I'm either sharing our, our examples from our own [00:32:00] LinkedIn ads or some of our clients.
And of course, it's, you know, cherry picked, like, obviously, real good results. I'm not going to make. a lot of public posts about our worst performing campaigns ever. Um, so a lot of times people can come with unrealistic views or thinking like LinkedIn's this miracle channel because of targeting. So knowing if it's right for you is probably one of the most important things.
Um, and then the mindset in which you approach it. So to me, there's usually like three Very, you know, is LinkedIn right [00:32:30] for me or how much should I put in there? Or how long will it take? It's usually it depends, but I tried to since that's not that helpful. I try to put it in three basic scenarios. One is my ideal scenario is you have a healthy marketing ecosystem.
You have like two or three other paid channels or healthy channels that are sending quality traffic to your website. You, you know, that could be, you have SEO ongoing, your domain authority is decent, you have a nice organic traffic, you have Google ads and maybe one [00:33:00] other channel, um, paid channel sending traffic, and you have a website that's mature and converts that traffic pretty well into booked meetings, um, adding LinkedIn into that ecosystem.
Like if you have that stuff going on, uh, and you have traffic going to your website, a couple of paid channels, and it's converting, then LinkedIn ads should only increase your ROI, because you could just start with retargeting, you could just add LinkedIn ads into the mix as a retargeting audience and say, okay, all this traffic that's hitting your website, [00:33:30] let's also qualify it and say, okay, those 90 day visitors who are from these geographic locations, be Uh, director level and above seniority from these industries that we serve and these company sizes with budget.
Let's retarget them on LinkedIn and make sure we, you know, kind of shake some extra conversions out of the efforts that our other marketing channels are doing and stay in front of these high fit leads. That would be almost a guaranteed ROI boost in the first like 45 days. Um, perfect example of who should be [00:34:00] using LinkedIn.
Um, the middle one is you have maybe one cold. paid source. Maybe it's not like super big or you have a couple of decent sources of traffic to your website, but you're not, your website, you know, could use some work. It's not the most efficient at converting that traffic into leads. Um, or maybe you have some work to do with your product market fit or pricing, like you're trying to figure stuff out.
LinkedIn's, LinkedIn could be a good fit. It's going to be iffy [00:34:30] on that, um, because it's not going to help solve, like, you finding out who your target demographic is, or it's not going to improve your website conversions, um, if you're sending quality traffic there and it's not going to do the best. Um, so that could be iffy and you really have to kind of, uh, judge what you have going on there and if LinkedIn is going to help or hurt.
Um, and then there's the other situation where you just don't have a mature marketing ecosystem. You don't have any other quality traffic hitting your, your website or you do, and it's not converting at all. [00:35:00] And LinkedIn definitely isn't like that. That should not not be your first channel. Probably shouldn't be your second marketing channel.
Um, it works best in the ecosystem. That's kind of already thriving and converting traffic. Um, versus trying to carve it out on its own or work in a silo. Absolutely.
[00:35:18] Leanne: Um, and I love that you called out 45 days, uh, the soonest. Um, you know, earlier when you were mentioning it took you a year to pivot, and now that you're reminding us about like the [00:35:30] 45 days, you know, of like, you know, a really robust best case scenario, is that B2B cycles are, are pretty lengthy.
And, you know, having realistic expectations of, you know, six to 12 months for a B2B sales cycle to occur. And then, you know, coming in part of the way by, in a thriving ecosystem with the LinkedIn ads to, uh, support and push up the other things that you're doing. You know, I think [00:36:00] 45 days is a pretty impressive kind of place to start to see.
Uh, the, the triples of, of impact. I also really liked that you called out that the times where it really just isn't a good fit. That, that LinkedIn is not, it's not your number one straight, I have no other marketing, I'm going to start something up and I'm going to do 100% LinkedIn with, you know, maybe like a Google form.
[00:36:28] Justin: And I, I think the other thing [00:36:30] to point out too is the, the, the mistake that people seem to come and it's. Like the people making decisions on all these companies, they're not marketers. And even some marketers aren't the most mature marketers. Um, or they're, they're more core into certain like channels.
But one of the things that I've realized as a LinkedIn marketer is that most companies first foray into marketing is Google SEO, maybe paid listing sites and maybe some Facebook, um, or email marketing. So they've, [00:37:00] they've. Uh, they've gotten kind of a transactional taste of marketing so far, SEO maybe was a big pill to swallow because it's like, Oh, you got to do all this work and I'm not going to see any leads like this month or next month or maybe this quarter, like, so that was hard for them.
But most of the other stuff is transactional. Google ads is bottom of the funnel. You can pretty easily, you know, get some leads out of there pretty quickly. Uh, the same with email marketing, big blast, and you'll get some results. And even Facebook, um, will get you [00:37:30] leads. Uh, the, the, the quality might be questionable.
So going from that into LinkedIn ads is a different mindset game. It's an SEO perspective game. And most people aren't coming to that conversation thinking that this is going to be like SEO. They're hoping or thinking it's more like Google Ads and Facebook. And so just trying to create that conversation or educate Kind of leadership and that this is a long term kind of, yes, we're going to create the demand and then [00:38:00] capture it.
But these are, we're marketing to people who haven't expressed any kind of digital hand raise or interest. We're, we're assuming that they're likely to have a need and that we're best equipped to serve them, but we got to get on their radar and then we got to nurture them and then we got to build the trust.
So getting them to switch perspectives from transactional to more of a long term SEO kind of play is also one of the big things that I think people make that mistake of not knowing the differences between the channels.
[00:38:27] Leanne: Yeah, or, or knowing the difference but [00:38:30] feeling pressured to ignore it, um, cause that happens too.
Um, but, but I think you're right that there's a lot there that people need to have enough knowledge to be dangerous of, of when and where and how and why the different channels operate and, and what that plays into in their overarching strategy. Um, and as we look forward, you know, LinkedIn has gone through a number of changes.
They, they changed the amount of [00:39:00] connection requests they changed. Um, they're, they're adding features or taking away features, sales navigator, you know, premium, the, you know, content thing, um, content reader, um, besides, you know, within LinkedIn, what, what do you think the future is there and also just overall, like, where do you think the marketing future is going to end up and, and where do you think it should end up if that.
[00:39:29] Justin: Um, so I do [00:39:30] think one of the things that has worked for me and also with the whatever they're calling it, the creator, something or influencer or something where, um, they're coming out with this thing where you can take a post from a personal profile and you can boost that with ad spend from your company ad account.
Um, you can boost company pages right now, but being able to boost a personal post would be a different, a different experience. And I do like that direction. I do think that's going to be an important update [00:40:00] if and when they really roll that out to everyone, because Um, you know what you're saying on the LinkedIn organic side, like LinkedIn is different in in a variety of reasons.
Most people are gravitate towards LinkedIn ads because the targeting is superior to usually other platforms. But to me, one of the biggest differences with LinkedIn is the mindset in which users approach. They're not looking to people don't log on to LinkedIn to be entertained. For the most part, they're logging in to usually better themselves or their [00:40:30] company.
They're actually. Open and willing to be influenced on buying decisions. They're looking to, for who to recognize as authorities in different spaces. So if you become visible or popular or whatever, um, in your space on LinkedIn, it carries with it dollar signs. Like being seen as an expert in your space on LinkedIn is way more valuable than being popular on Facebook.
Um, because this is like a business and so that has dollars attached to it. So if you are putting in the work for a [00:41:00] personal account, or you're kind of like, One of these, um, companies that their, their founders or executives are visible drivers of the company and personalities, being able to amplify that properly with the paid ad spend, uh, is going to be pretty powerful.
And I know that firsthand because even before, probably for two years now. I was, I'm, I'm pretty sure that I was the one that started this little trend of screenshotting your LinkedIn organic posts and then running that as an ad on [00:41:30] the LinkedIn ad side. And I, I would do that for that very reason. I was taking some of my most popular posts and then I was turning, I was screenshotting it and including the likes and comments and social proof.
And I was running that as an ad, um, to guarantee distribution to my, you know, best fit prospects that had visited my website. Thank you. And they work really, really well because it humanizes the brand. It shows that we're experts in our space. I get to cross over the value of my personal brand with [00:42:00] the company brand.
Um, so I do think, I think that's part of the future. And I think playing off on that more strategic partnerships. Um, with LinkedIn and LinkedIn events and collaborations. Um, kind of in the same light, like as LinkedIn is susceptible to being successful as like personal personalities emerge from companies, then pairing those and leveraging those in partnerships and events and webinars and podcasts and, and building that kind of [00:42:30] ecosystem.
I think that's going to be a big part of the next year or two.
[00:42:33] Leanne: Absolutely. Um, and I saw it, but didn't realize I saw it, the, the screenshot of the first of all posts being as an ad, because some of the advice that I've given clients in the past was that they're like, Leah, we're going to have you write for our business page, but will you also write for, or do you think we need to have our leadership, right?
[00:43:00] I'll be like, yes. I would say that if you had to choose between investing in writing for your business page and writing for your leadership, that you have a writer for your leadership if they aren't able to do it themselves. And then, um, from there, I, you know, the humanizing of it, you know, like when you start to, one thing that you did that is very intuitive.
Was that including the social proof of the likes and the engagement on it? Because it wouldn't hit the same if it was
[00:43:29] Justin: [00:43:30] empty. No, yeah. Might as well just make it fresh in the ad thing. But yeah, that was purposeful.
[00:43:35] Leanne: Yeah, no, that's great. Um, you know, if anyone's gonna steal a suggestion, maybe. Maybe that one, um, if you're, if you're just starting your foray into it, but I think that, you know, having somebody that naturally thinks to do stuff like that first is, is pretty cool.
Um, and so as we're kind of coming towards the end of this, [00:44:00] what is a question that someone should ask you, but you, you, you wish that they would just ask instead of, instead they ask like this other question or, or maybe they miss it. And you have to, like, kind of start back at the beginning and explain it to them.
[00:44:15] Justin: Um, probably, probably if, it's just like a starting point. I think there's like a level of foundational knowledge where people just don't know what they don't know. So they're asking, like, things like, [00:44:30] you know, is LinkedIn right for me? Or how can I get started on LinkedIn? Or. And a lot of times, like I come back to some foundational question of like, well, where should, where should you start?
Like, obviously if LinkedIn ads, if I'm a LinkedIn ads agency and I'm just like selfish and LinkedIn ads is my only like tool in the toolbox, then no matter what comes through, I think LinkedIn ads is the answer. But I'm a pretty well rounded marketer, I think. And so a lot of times I'm having discussion and it's more of just like.
Where should you be starting? [00:45:00] I honestly just want to educate people on like other channels other than LinkedIn ads, because a lot of times LinkedIn ads, you know, might, isn't the answer to their problems. It's like, have you, if you're running Google ads and you haven't discovered like paid listing sites like Clutch and G2, I would talk to you about that.
I have nothing to sell you on that, but I'm a firm believer like those things work. Um, not enough people are educated about that. Not enough people are educated about programmatic and CTV. Like when I discovered CTV and I figured out [00:45:30] for like, not that much money, I can retarget website visitors and show up with a video on, in their living room.
And it's like inexpensive. That's like magic. And my mom is sending me, um, screen or pictures of me on her TV. Um, people in our job are like all excited to see their boss on TV. Um, so there's a lot of other things like there's usually a lot of other things that people should be doing before they get to LinkedIn ads.
As much as I'd love to just [00:46:00] talk to people about LinkedIn ads, a lot of me doing them the best service would be talking to them about other places they might want to look at first or other things they, you know, get a mindset check. Yeah, and,
[00:46:12] Leanne: and, you know, CTV is a, is a place that a lot of people miss because it's not necessarily, you know, it's not on their desktop all the time.
Yeah, it's a privilege. That's a whole other episode of what CTV is. But there are times when it is. If someone [00:46:30] wanted to reach out to you, if they, I hope they would find you on LinkedIn. Um, but could you just spell your name once again for us and give people a couple ways to get in touch if they want to learn more?
[00:46:41] Justin: Uh, my name is Justin Rowe. J U S T I N R O W E. Um, and Impactable.com is my main website. It's a LinkedIn ads agency. You can find me on LinkedIn. Usually if you search for Justin Rowe, I am the top result. I forget, there's [00:47:00] a couple other, uh, kind of famous Justins. But not row. And then the other place that I really like to tell people about is our YouTube channel.
So if you go onto YouTube, you search for impactable, or usually if you type for impactable or LinkedIn ads, you'll find our YouTube channel. I think we have like two hundred and thirty plus videos outside of LinkedIn itself. We have the largest collection of educational LinkedIn ads videos on YouTube.
So it's a really good resource. You can get to know us. I also do have video sections on [00:47:30] other things, but those are the main ways. Awesome. I appreciate
[00:47:33] Leanne: that. Um, yeah, it's always that E at the end that, you know, I always want to get like the spelling clarified before. Um, my name is Leanne and I can be found at Markigy, M A R K I G Y, a fun made up word that describes the blend of creativity, science, And marketing, and so thank you so much for listening.
Please remember to like, subscribe, review, and have a wonderful day. [00:48:00] You've been listening to Markigy, the Science of Marketing Strategy. If any of the strategies we talked about today inspired you to learn more, try them. Remember, the perfect strategy doesn't exist, only the one that gets done. Subscribe to our show on your favorite podcast player to make sure that you never miss an episode.
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