In this episode, Neil Shah shares his journey from engineering to becoming a product marketing expert. With over 15 years in the field, he offers insights into effective marketing strategies and the importance of adaptability. Listeners will gain valuable tips for success in product marketing, and their marketing strategies making this a must-listen for professionals at any stage of their career.
Joining us is Neil Shah, who shares his journey from engineering to becoming a product marketing expert. With over 15 years in the field, he offers insights into effective marketing strategies and the importance of adaptability. Listeners will gain valuable tips for success in product marketing, and their marketing strategies
Key Takeaways:
Today's conversation with Neil not only highlighted the interconnectedness of technical and marketing disciplines but also underscored the importance of adaptability and customer-centricity in crafting effective marketing strategies. Remember that the path to marketing mastery is paved with continuous learning, testing, and evolving.
Stay Connected:
Find out more about Neil:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/neilpshah/
Leanne Dow-Weimer
https://www.linkedin.com/in/leannedow/
www.markigy.com
(intro)
00;00;11;19 - 00;00;40;25
Leanne
Hi there. This is Leanne with Markigy and I'm joined today by Neil Shah. He has 15 plus years of experience as a seasoned product marketer. He has been in tech and B2B sales and he is just someone I look to for ways to be a better product marketer. Neil I know that's kind of a grand entrance, but could you just tell us more about how you got to this place in your career and why what fuels you and more about your background?
00;00;41;14 - 00;01;02;06
Neil
Yeah, first of all, thank you, Liane, for having me on your podcast. I was really looking forward to this. You know, since last time we spoke about my journey in background, it's actually I am it's been an interesting one for me. I started my career in engineering back in 2008, so I was a software engineer working at NetApp, and I spent three years in software engineering.
00;01;02;27 - 00;01;23;06
Neil
And while I love the analytical sort of problem solving, you know, as an engineer, I just felt like I was not getting enough exposure to customers to market the partners. And I just had a very natural inclination towards that. So, you know, over the years, I made intentional efforts to move into roles that would give me that sort of exposure.
00;01;24;00 - 00;01;43;24
Neil
Next embarked on a journey to product management from engineering. I spent a good three or four years there understanding the product, the customers, how to develop business cases, and then eventually made the transition to product marketing for the last, you know, nine or ten plus years. And I just fell in love with the craft and just product marketing.
00;01;43;24 - 00;01;52;12
Neil
So it's, you know, it's taken me a journey to get there, but I'm really happy being able to make that transition all these years. And I just look, I just love product marketing.
00;01;53;02 - 00;02;29;27
Leanne
And I love that because it just it gives us it's like the intentionality of your choices because we don't often see or hear enough about engineers that want to talk to customers. I think the feedback that we get from online forums or means or whatever says the opposite, and that's not always the case. That's not fair. So would you say that talking to the customers is most of the appeal of product marketing or what parts of, you know, product marketing specifically appealed to you?
00;02;30;19 - 00;02;49;16
Neil
Yeah, I think there are a lot of facets to product marketing that are really appealing. But actually I want to take even one step deeper and maybe I can share my experiences on how you can find your ideal role, right? So, you know, when I was growing up in India, you know, our parents want us to become engineers, lawyers, and so I know that was pretty common.
00;02;50;01 - 00;03;05;21
Neil
So when I, you know, just graduated out of college, you know, I said to my parents, like, why don't you just take up engineering? And to be honest, when you were young, you know, you really don't know what you want to, you know, do from a long term career standpoint. So I said, my friends will go for engineering.
00;03;05;21 - 00;03;41;01
Neil
I said, okay, let's do engineering. That's how I got enrolled into engineering. And, you know, I spent like good four years there, and that really became the foundation and then, you know, came to the U.S., took my master's at the University of Southern California. So a computer double out of engineering. But I think what I didn't realize is growing up in a big city like Mumbai, where folks are a lot more ongoing, you know, you your friends circle your in bar and that kind of grow up actually ends up impacting on what career choices you make.
00;03;41;02 - 00;04;14;10
Neil
So while I actually studied engineering, I realized at a later point in my career there was a natural inclination of me to understand, you know, more about customers, more about partners, more about how the industry works. And I think just coming from a big city, that just came very naturally to me. So that that helped me ask myself, you know, honest and genuine questions whether, you know, is this career I want to double down for 30 plus years or do I actually want to start putting the intentional effort to make a transition into a role that I really aspire to be?
00;04;14;13 - 00;04;27;28
Neil
And, you know, it takes time because when you want to make a transition, you have to experiment, you have to test new things. And only by doing that, you eventually get to a place where you find this, reach out and that's what I've really tried over the past many years.
00;04;28;23 - 00;04;57;21
Leanne
Yeah, that's that's something that I think resonates with a lot of marketers is that many people that end up doing well in marketing didn't necessarily study it in college or undergrad. It's something that they realized that's how their brain works and not as where it was. Frictionless experience. Yeah. And I mean, I assign you the value of you must have been very skilled at engineering, so it wasn't as if you were necessary.
00;04;57;22 - 00;05;22;16
Leanne
And this is lots of assumptions that you were struggling or that, you know, you weren't good at it because you must have been pretty decent at it to get to where you are. And so, you know, and I think that that is something that is powerful, is that you can be good at many things and you can choose which things you're good at, bring you the most satisfaction in your career.
00;05;22;27 - 00;05;43;23
Neil
We are totally spot on and actually, you know, this reminds me of an analogy or an advice I got from one of my mentors, right? While I was really trying to figure it out, my own journey. And and what he said is, listen, you know what? In life don't get good at the wrong thing. Right? And I really didn't truly understand that at that point in time.
00;05;44;04 - 00;06;03;12
Neil
Whereas I kind of evolved with my own journey. I think what he was trying to say is like, you know, there will be situations where you will continue to do what you're doing and you might actually get good at it, but you may not end up having a, you know, a satisfied career. So it's like, okay, I could have pursued engineering because that's what my foundation was.
00;06;03;12 - 00;06;21;07
Neil
But maybe I would have got good at the wrong thing and not being a marketer. And to me, like, you know, if I did like share any experiences with the young, younger folks who are coming up through the ranks trying to figure out what comes very naturally to you, right? Just like you said, our brain is wired in a certain way, some root.
00;06;21;07 - 00;06;41;17
Neil
Some are really good at solving math problems. Some are really good with closing deals like sales reps or someone just have a good combination of both the logical and the creative mindset. And you know, maybe marketing is a choice for them. So, you know, my, my, my advice to anybody coming up through the ranks is, look, ask yourself, what am I really good at?
00;06;41;18 - 00;06;57;03
Neil
That comes naturally and then try to double down on that because, you know, you don't want your job to be to be not thought. Right? Every day you get up in the morning, you won't be in a flow state where you're just enjoying the process. And so so yeah, that's, that's where I work.
00;06;58;01 - 00;07;24;19
Leanne
Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly. And, you know, I, I would say that I, most of the audience of this podcast is a little bit more in the like. We've made that choice in where we're into it. But at the same time, I think it's important, but it doesn't matter if you're five, ten, 15, 20 years into your career. So constantly reevaluate what's working for you and where you have evolved into.
00;07;25;00 - 00;07;25;10
Neil
Totally.
00;07;25;26 - 00;08;00;27
Leanne
And the transferable skills. You know, there's always something that is going to transfer into some aspect, just like how engineering transferred into products market product management, which then as a product manager you can, you know, when you if you transfer into product marketing or back and forth because I see a lot of management in products marketers kind of like flow back and forth and you have an understanding of the, the holistic system in which you're operating, which therefore makes you better at what's underneath your barella.
00;08;01;16 - 00;08;18;01
Leanne
So even if you've been in like demand giant or inbound or whatever we're calling it these days, from day one, you need to understand the whole situation in order to execute well.
00;08;18;01 - 00;08;38;01
Neil
Your stuff. Yeah, yeah, totally. And and actually, you know, that actually also brings about a point. I actually have had a lot of, you know, folks who work in dimension capacity or content marketers matter. I like I just spoke to two or three of them this week and they were asking for, hey, you know, one of the ways I could actually transition into product marketing.
00;08;38;29 - 00;08;59;10
Neil
But at the same time, I've also had individuals who kind of talk about product marketing, but they also see the shiny object in product management. And they're trying to figure out, should I do product management, I should do product marketing. And I always go back to say, hey, listen, you know what? To to to get into a career, you need to understand how how that function works in the first place.
00;08;59;10 - 00;09;23;12
Neil
Right. And only by having a deeper understanding and evaluating your own personality traits, you're able to kind of make a decision. Hey, listen, what in product marketing, when I am launching new products or I am doing competitive analysis, or I'm actually going to an event and doing a case study session with a customer on stage. Those things to me, right, versus being a product manager is like, Hey, I love working with engineering.
00;09;23;20 - 00;09;35;00
Neil
I love to come up with some new ideas or I, I love to write parties. You know, those are the questions you ask yourself and to really find out where what you really want for your career. You know.
00;09;35;15 - 00;09;59;26
Leanne
I, I wish it was more of an open system. At the same time, I understand why it's not where you could, like, take your friend to work day where they can see, like, what it really looks like in that role for a full day. And that's where having those friendships within your own org, where maybe you can do that within your org and say, oh, hey buddy, I, it also makes you a better marketer.
00;10;01;09 - 00;10;06;02
Leanne
It makes you a better colleague or you, you understand what their job really is.
00;10;06;02 - 00;10;32;20
Neil
Yeah. Yeah. And actually, you know, listen, in today's world where there's so much information available right on Google, so many courses out there, actually, you can also go on LinkedIn and look at profiles of individuals who have actually made that transition. So I can tell you when I was, you know, making that cut of work from product management to product marketing, luckily I was surrounded by really good friends who helped me evaluate and understand the craft of product marketing.
00;10;33;12 - 00;10;52;16
Neil
And then when you look at profiles of individuals who are ahead of you in their career, you will see very clear patterns that will stand out. Right. And so that's also one way to, you know, profile somebody that you really admire or aspire and maybe even ask for a coffee shop. You know, no professional. The ones are the ones who are in their career.
00;10;52;16 - 00;11;02;19
Neil
They love helping the ones who are coming up through the ranks. So don't be don't be shy of getting people up. It's if you if you think they can really help you making the right choices.
00;11;03;17 - 00;11;04;24
Leanne
Absolutely.
00;11;04;24 - 00;11;05;02
Neil
Yeah.
00;11;05;22 - 00;11;23;07
Leanne
All of my guests know I am a big fan of the cold DM so I and, and you know why it's led to some of the best conversations that are out there is that people will just ignore you if they don't want to. They aren't going to like, like it's just like crickets is the truth. If someone doesn't want to talk to you, they just won't.
00;11;23;21 - 00;11;34;00
Leanne
But if you approach kindly with the right intentions, it's not pitch sloppy them, you know, professional and professional. Most people are pretty receptive to it.
00;11;34;00 - 00;11;41;25
Neil
And we met through that. You know, we connected through a few posts. And the next thing we know, we're doing a podcast here. So this is a perfect example of it.
00;11;42;16 - 00;12;07;28
Leanne
Exactly. And, you know, I'm not going to go as far to say as my podcast is product marketing in action because I'm doing customer interviews. But you know, if we are really going to stretch the truth, we maybe could as far as you know, when people are operating within their org and they're trying to, you know, bring a product into their GTM.
00;12;08;23 - 00;12;11;16
Leanne
GTM has really evolved in the past year.
00;12;11;29 - 00;12;12;04
Neil
Or.
00;12;12;20 - 00;12;27;20
Leanne
So, kind of what you call is under the umbrella of product marketing, if we were going to define it as a role and then to follow that up, how do we see that impacting marketing strategy overall?
00;12;28;13 - 00;12;50;09
Neil
Yeah, you know, I think the first answer to your question, you know, over the years of kind of build this framework or formula in my in my head about what part of marketing is. So let me share with you in my view, you know, there are five pillars of marketing number one is you're kind of responsible to quarterback all the product launches that are happening in the company, at least from an outbound standpoint.
00;12;50;09 - 00;13;11;14
Neil
Right. Second is, you want to keep in a close eye on the competition. So any kind of competitive intel sort of programs, you would own it, sales enablement, working with the cross-functional team on really making sure all the content you're building, it could be the pitch stack would be your deck, could be, you know, competitive bell cause you're in a position to work with.
00;13;11;20 - 00;13;31;19
Neil
You've got a market team and really enable them, right? Because that's those are the folks that something on the frontlines of sales enablement. Again, this is a huge aspect of what marketing does integrated campaigns. A lot of times you know market the rest of the marketing team is going to depend on product marketing to really build the underlining messaging.
00;13;31;19 - 00;13;55;09
Neil
The buyer messaging, right. And so being able to build that foundation for your demand from teams where now they're going to use those inputs and run integrated campaigns have built pipeline for the company. I think. I think that's massive and last but not the least messaging, positioning, right. You really want to build a new, you know, category of be a pop up, an existing category that is that and that is highly differentiated.
00;13;55;16 - 00;14;15;19
Neil
And so being able to launch the messaging and positioning techniques that helps you build a category or be part of an existing one in a unique way, you know that more truly. Well, for product marketing, some might be like, those are the five pillars of product marketing. And then I think you had the second part.
00;14;15;21 - 00;14;27;23
Leanne
Question Yeah. In how and you touched on this when you mentioned some of the other kind of aspects of marketing. But but how does it integrate into the overall marketing strategy? Like what's.
00;14;27;29 - 00;14;28;10
Neil
Yeah.
00;14;28;23 - 00;14;34;29
Leanne
What's its place and I think that that's very open ended but you know, go.
00;14;35;26 - 00;15;01;10
Neil
Yeah. So, so you don't look at it in my view and I get I mean I may be biased because I have a part marketing background, but listen, everything starts with with a very clear understanding of your market, your customers and your competitors. These three things are non-negotiable as a product marketer, and that really builds a foundation on, you know, if your content marketer is going to be building content strategy, they need to understand the buyer challenges.
00;15;01;21 - 00;15;26;15
Neil
If your demand gen person is going to run campaigns, they have to understand the pains of the buyer and how the solutions are going to help them solve those. If you're looking at brand and creative elements, they need to understand the buyer challenges to be able to put the visuals that that map back to a fight. So as a product marketer, you know, really helps kind of build that foundation for the marketing teams in terms of understanding of customers.
00;15;26;15 - 00;15;41;27
Neil
Your ICP, the pain, the solutions and then the rest of the marketing team kind of really, really takes this to a whole new level and uses different types of channels to, to spread the word out in the market and then eventually build pipeline and help sales impose more deals.
00;15;42;24 - 00;15;49;03
Leanne
I love it. Would you say the product marketing is kind of a misnomer and it's really customer marketing?
00;15;50;11 - 00;16;13;23
Neil
That's a great question. You know, I can tell you one thing, product marketing is misunderstood, at least in B2B says I worked for, you know, four companies where I've done different types of product marketing all the way from Hitachi data systems. Where I really got started with product marketing, you know, a much bigger company set up two totally different style of product marketing and then high growth companies like automation anywhere I am said no.
00;16;13;24 - 00;16;42;13
Neil
So most recently the the perception from your CEO or from your executives on what part of marketing base will complete a company. And I think what makes product marketing a lot of fun and and and and specialize is the art itself. It's a very small community of PMS compared to a community of PMS or content marketers. And what the ends up happening is the level of expertize you really need to deeply understand.
00;16;42;13 - 00;17;01;12
Neil
Product marketing only comes with experience, and that means if your head of sales has never worked with product marketer before, the chances are his expectations are not going to be super aligned. Right. But if you've got a seasoned head of sales to work with marketers, two or three companies, he's going to be super streamlined on how he works with you.
00;17;01;26 - 00;17;09;24
Neil
So I think, yeah, that's that's kind of my view. It's kind of most misunderstood, but that's also makes it, you know, fun and challenging in the same time.
00;17;10;18 - 00;17;39;18
Leanne
Yeah, I mean, I have felt that most of marketing is misunderstood and I know that we've all had those moments where like, look, it's more than fonts and colors. Yeah, actually pretty deep. But you know, I think I, I agree about product marketing is I, I, one of the things that drew me to it, even though I've never been in like titles, salaried, like and only does part product marketing role is that I bring that with me to all of my roles because that's the future.
00;17;40;03 - 00;17;53;11
Leanne
And it doesn't matter if you're in an industrial company or a low tech or service is that you have to bring in those products. Marketing fundamentals as the world gets more digital.
00;17;53;20 - 00;18;20;07
Neil
Yeah, yeah. And I think I think that's that's spot on because, you know, irrespective you're working in B2B says you're working the pharma company and you're working at a financial company. When you go to market, there are certain some basics and foundations that remain the same across all of these different verticals. And that's where, you know, you if you able to see the problems to a mental product marketer, it's just going to help you tremendously irrespective of the industry, your path.
00;18;21;01 - 00;18;38;05
Leanne
Yeah, absolutely. So what would you say that one of the biggest like mistakes that you see people make when they're doing product marketing, like where they're just a little bit off center and it's wrong enough to have like a pretty big impact.
00;18;38;16 - 00;19;00;10
Neil
Yeah, actually, I would say that's a great question. I was just coaching a bunch of upcoming PMS last week on a on a webinar, and we actually have fantastic discussion on a lot of different topics. Right. So one, one of the students asked me, you know, I constantly keep getting feedback from my manager that I'm not strategic enough.
00;19;00;26 - 00;19;01;23
Neil
What does that really mean?
00;19;01;23 - 00;19;04;22
Leanne
Different than product marketing?
00;19;04;22 - 00;19;23;01
Neil
Yeah, I think that's an interesting question and I think it depends on the stage of the company, to be honest. A lot of times you will see in early stage startups, especially Series A, which are operating with a very small marketing team, usually they have a head of marketing and the head of marketing can come from any background, right?
00;19;23;01 - 00;19;44;17
Neil
They may come from a marketing background or they may come from a dimension depends on the needs of the company. So I would say, like in general, what I've seen as, you know, an early stage startup series A usually they tend to operate with one product marketer who is able to cover the breadth, the full breadth, but I think is one of the toughest roles in my view.
00;19;44;29 - 00;20;03;03
Neil
And then as you start to go to series B, C, C and above, you start to form different teams. And at scale you really have highly specialized role. I should add a one on the leadership post on four types of PMS that got a lot of engagement, actually a lot of debate too, which was which was fun at the same time.
00;20;03;03 - 00;20;29;13
Neil
So, you know, there are four types of big, big awards. You have your platform PMS doing a lot of product launches. You've got competitive intel PMS that's keeping an eye on the competition. You have solutions. Prime That's really crafting new solutions, new buyer strategies, you know, helping your management teams integrate into their campaigns. And I forget the fourth one you got solutions market.
00;20;29;19 - 00;20;30;09
Leanne
Research.
00;20;30;25 - 00;20;35;19
Neil
I need to go back to my post is just yeah there are four types of there's one more.
00;20;36;16 - 00;21;03;28
Leanne
Yeah. I mean that's interesting because recently I've seen a lot of people saying the product marketers should be the first marketing hire. Yeah. And, and I think the, you know, a generalist with products marketing mindset and experience is crucial to find that early product market fit because if you you can't put the cart before the horse, you can't start with all these assumptions.
00;21;03;28 - 00;21;26;01
Leanne
You know, like sometimes content, if you start off with like content marketing mindset that you haven't answered or solved for the things that come first. And so, you know, I think that the it's right to bring a product marketer on early, but you know, a generalist product marketer instead of a specialized one maybe. Yeah.
00;21;26;09 - 00;22;02;21
Neil
Yeah, exactly. And I'm not a specialization. I just remember for type of product marketer, it's actually industry PMS, the one who has a deep understanding of a given industry, let's say finance or banking, when you're trying to build core mortgage strategies around those verticals. So your industry PMS, a fourth one and going back to like you already say, start ups, in an ideal world, yes, I think, you know, product marketing should be a first hire, but it really also depends on, you know, your CEO's exposure to to marketing and to what extent do they truly understand it or even your beat, your marketing was leading the pack.
00;22;03;15 - 00;22;16;11
Neil
You know, I've seen it. They come from a content background. They will have a natural inclination or bias towards content, which is okay because that's that's what they've done throughout. But I've seen situations differ quite a bit, especially in audio stations.
00;22;17;08 - 00;22;42;25
Leanne
Yeah. In, in, you know I love the phrase. It depends because it always does. Right. There's no hard and fast rule. Certain types of start ups like a, you know, are more inclined to being more relevant to have a content marketer like if you are, I am a platform that helps people create content. You better be creating it yourself, using your product to showcase that ability the and demonstrate the value.
00;22;44;07 - 00;22;53;18
Leanne
But that's you know, if you're a behind the scenes like in turtle software maybe content isn't where you start, you know. Yeah, it all depends.
00;22;54;03 - 00;23;22;29
Neil
Yeah. One distinction interesting. One is also when you have building software that's very technical, like maybe say cybersecurity or data storage, DevOps just some few weeks out. What's top of mind to build? Go to market content. You really need a technical PM, you can get away with it. But if you're selling, maybe, you know, not a very highly technical product, something that can be easily understood.
00;23;22;29 - 00;23;41;06
Neil
Maybe in the MarTech space, there are a lot of tools that you sell to sales and marketing where they're not that complicated from a technical standpoint. So maybe, you know, an early on, maybe you want to bring a content marketer who can build the right strategies to help you drive pipeline as opposed to a technical PM. Right. So those are kind of two different.
00;23;41;14 - 00;23;45;28
Neil
You just an example of situation or where PM may or may not be. Well.
00;23;46;14 - 00;24;03;06
Leanne
And and that's a great example because if you have somebody in like a martech and you have somebody and a cybersecurity, sometimes people don't even don't they it's never entered their world some of the technical aspects.
00;24;03;18 - 00;24;04;04
Neil
Of.
00;24;04;04 - 00;24;37;16
Leanne
Cybersecurity and and I think that that's perfectly valid. I'd like there's no judgment there. Like if you didn't need to know it, why would you? But if you need a marketer, you got to like have a technical understanding of it or be able to take it up very, very quickly because you understand the premise. And so I could see someone coming from an engineering background, understanding the premise of the code has this has abilities and you need this type of cybersecurity in order to make sure that the API or the, you know, whatever things don't go crazy.
00;24;38;12 - 00;24;46;01
Leanne
You have to have some sort of technicality or ability to get there quickly to make it happen.
00;24;46;20 - 00;25;11;17
Neil
Yeah. And that's where, you know, that's what I think coming from any kind of technical background, either would be engineering or maybe you came from a technical marketing role or even a solutions consultant and you now transitioned in the product marketing that actually gives you a huge competitive advantage. Just being able to understand the technical side of things, because when you're talking to product teams, they will value and appreciate somebody who can talk at a technical level, right?
00;25;11;27 - 00;25;37;00
Neil
So you know that that kind of becomes an advantage. Well, bounce off. It is sometimes, you know, you downside from time to time also seen is until you've fully understood that the the depth of product marketing you can get super technical and actually miss out on the value driven messaging positioning. So you just you just need to understand what the right balance is and use that to your advantage.
00;25;37;13 - 00;25;57;11
Leanne
Yeah, that's a really great insight because both of those things could happen is that you could get so deep into the Oh, I know this and very excited and rightfully so. And and miss out on you know it's the same as creating ten pieces of content instead of being strategic. Exactly. So there's so many ways to fall in that portal.
00;25;57;11 - 00;26;07;24
Leanne
And so as we're kind of looking at marketing and product marketing, where do you think the future of this is? Like, where do you think it should go?
00;26;07;24 - 00;26;32;08
Neil
You know, that's a that's a great question. I think my view, at least in 2024 and eight, is that I'm looking at personally to develop as a product marketer is one is actually built a little bit more content share my experiences with fellow PMS on LinkedIn. So you know, most recently I've just taken on writing PPM content on LinkedIn.
00;26;32;09 - 00;26;53;27
Neil
I actually I've seen tremendous response. I've seen a lot of folks reach out who want to learn product marketing, and it's also helping me to kind of flesh out my thoughts and frameworks. So I think, you know, building a personal brand about any expertize that you have, I think social is going to be huge. It's going to continue to get better and better in five, ten years out.
00;26;55;14 - 00;27;19;17
Neil
If you look at 2022 or 2023, what do you spend a lot of marketing budgets on acquiring customers from different channels, just given the market conditions, not a lot of marketers saw ROI, but the beauty about LinkedIn is everything is organic. And you know, if you're a company or an individual, if you if you write content on LinkedIn, it helps you build a brand from a long term, right?
00;27;19;17 - 00;27;42;09
Neil
So I think personal goals for me is how can I continue to get to become better and better and put my message across on LinkedIn? And then the second one is with obviously there's a lot of buzz around artificial intelligence and I'm trying to figure out what artificial intelligence really means and helps a product marketer to get better on almost daily job.
00;27;42;09 - 00;27;58;23
Neil
Right. I think, you know, again, there are a lot of ways to do it, but I'm trying to like really dissect on how artificial intelligence is going to help a person do a better job in 2024 versus the two year 2022 or 2023. So know those are, those are two areas I'm focused on.
00;27;59;09 - 00;28;25;03
Leanne
Yeah. And I think that's, that's a really great call outs because almost everyone says AI. Right. But no one, no one's really like saying with the exception of you know, I'm not this is not sponsored, you know I'm here if they want to sponsor it. But uni is a really cool company. Yeah. That, that is using AI and they're using it in a tangible way that is sound.
00;28;26;04 - 00;28;56;02
Leanne
And, and you know, that's one of the ways where not everyone's saying like, you know, everyone's got a plug in to chat, like everyone's got access, but how are they using it in a demonstratively impactful way? How is it moving the needle? How is it increasing our efficiency and for a product marketer, the way that I you know, the ways that I see AI improving efficiency are better social listening is better reports on competitive intelligence.
00;28;56;02 - 00;29;24;14
Leanne
I've seen some really bad social listening tools that give me almost no value, and then I've seen some ones that do really exceptionally well. And like that type of thing is where how is this going to help us improve? How is this going to increase efficiency? How is this going to reduce costs and then improve bandwidth? Yeah, you know, if I have to spend an extra hour sorting through a report, that's like half true.
00;29;25;09 - 00;29;32;07
Leanne
I'm just not going to do it. I'm just going to go straight to the source and spend time doomscrolling and keeping my finger on the pulse totally.
00;29;32;07 - 00;29;52;11
Neil
Totally. And you know, just on that topic, actually, I was playing on Richard Jeopardy last week, and I'm just trying to figure out how it can really tax the life of Pokemon and I, you know, put a few prompts out there and maybe, you know, it's still early stages, but I got a lot of responses back that were I felt a little bit more generic.
00;29;52;22 - 00;30;17;06
Neil
And I think to me that was it was clear that the air tools cannot replace the experiences that you build through your both good and hard times. Right? And so at some point in time, I would love to see how I can actually start replicating the experience of PM and really techniques your life and opinion. But yeah, I think it's going to be interesting how everything pans out the next few years.
00;30;18;01 - 00;30;26;19
Leanne
Yeah. And you know, I just like to call out and remind us all because we're all guilty of it. Is that not everything it spits back to us is true?
00;30;27;03 - 00;30;28;03
Neil
Yeah, totally.
00;30;28;17 - 00;30;40;21
Leanne
Yeah. And, and sometimes when it's wrong and you have enough experience to know it's wrong, you catch it. But if you don't know and it spits something back to you, you just take it as truth.
00;30;40;21 - 00;30;41;00
Neil
Yep.
00;30;41;09 - 00;31;08;09
Leanne
Yeah. And that you got to be real careful. It's not. It's it. It's a slippery slope. So I've got one big question left. And I know we talked about this. I prepared you a little bit, but what is the question someone should ask you but they don't like? Maybe it's they start too far down the road and they really need to back up five steps and ask this question instead.
00;31;08;09 - 00;31;14;24
Leanne
Or maybe there's something about you that we just need to hear more about, what it would be, those questions that people should ask you.
00;31;15;10 - 00;31;19;13
Neil
And this is more like personally what people should ask me or professionally.
00;31;20;05 - 00;31;25;06
Leanne
Any of it. Someone someone's picking up their phone, they're talking to Neil. What should they be asking you?
00;31;25;29 - 00;31;52;19
Neil
Yeah, I think, you know, one piece of advice. If I have or somebody who wants to enter a product marketing profession or marketer for that, for that matter, all times marketing is looked at as a cost center. So, hey, you know what? I want to drive 1000 leads. What channel should I drive? What channels should I put more money on?
00;31;52;19 - 00;32;12;06
Neil
And how much is going to cost me? Should I do more events? How much is it going to cost me? Should I do more digital ads? How much is it going to cost me? I would actually like folks to reframe that a bit and actually look at marketing as an investment, right? So marketing today for the majority of the poor, the perception is it's a cost center.
00;32;12;18 - 00;32;40;25
Neil
Like we've got to, you know, give marketing a budget and this is how it's going to impact our pal. But the the day you start thinking of marketing as an investment, now you're thinking long term versus short term, right? And I think that's that's a kind of a reframing or a new direction. I want folks who are thinking about marketing as an investment and thinking in terms of long term because that the market it's hard for marketing to just build a whole bunch of pipeline in ten days.
00;32;40;25 - 00;32;45;28
Neil
That's very short term thinking. But when you build a brand from a long term standpoint, a lot of things will happen.
00;32;46;10 - 00;33;07;22
Leanne
Yeah. Hey, I could not agree more. I that is like my, my, it's my song of the century, my motto. I have so many mottos, but I am you know, I think to me, it sounds like the question is, should they be asking how much they cost? But they should be asking, is this the right investment? Is this the right move?
00;33;07;22 - 00;33;34;02
Leanne
Is this going to bring us a future? Yeah. And while we all acknowledge that if you don't have enough pipeline to get through your cash runway, you won't exist. Yeah, but if you cannibalize your brand because you did too many like get rich quick, get rich quick schemes, you know, you're just you're not going to have a future if you if you win at all costs, it's going to cost you totally.
00;33;34;02 - 00;33;56;04
Neil
Totally. And people, you know, people resonate with brand. They don't buy like, for example, today you want to buy household items. What's the first thing that comes to mind? Amazon Yeah. If you want to watch a movie on Saturday night, it's Netflix, right? So these companies then, you know, build a brand overnight. But it was a consistent effort from a long time.
00;33;56;04 - 00;34;02;19
Neil
And there are tremendous advantages to building a brand for long term viability of a business.
00;34;03;15 - 00;34;29;25
Leanne
Yeah, absolutely. And they built those brands on repeatedly, consistently showing up as a certain thing that is meant for certain people and not everybody else. And they may expand into everybody. Amazon has certainly expanded from where they started into so many things, but on each of those things they deliver consistently what the people that came there for that thing is.
00;34;30;06 - 00;34;30;15
Neil
Yeah.
00;34;31;28 - 00;34;44;16
Leanne
And that's that's branding. That's how we there going. I if someone wants to find you or get a hold of you, what is the best ways for them to do it.
00;34;45;09 - 00;34;54;03
Neil
Yeah, I'm actually pretty on LinkedIn these days, so if you want to have a chat or want to find me, just go on LinkedIn. And if you like to chat, just get me.
00;34;54;28 - 00;35;06;14
Leanne
Awesome and you know, for those who are only listening as his LinkedIn will be in the show notes. But Neil, do you want to just spell out your whole name just so that everyone can be here? Which Neil it is?
00;35;06;20 - 00;35;14;25
Neil
Astro I think the full name is Neil Shah and if you want to pronounce N-E-I-L and the last name is S-H-A-H
00;35;14;25 - 00;35;42;09
Leanne
Thank you. This is Leanne. And if you want to get a hold of me, please email questions to info at markigy.com that is info at M-A-R-K-I-G-Y dot com. Markigy is a fun made up word to describe the blend of creativity, science and data all within marketing. And so we like to make sure that the customers at the center of it, and I thank you so much for listening, please leave a review at the end of this.
00;35;42;09 - 00;35;47;11
Leanne
Also, it helps me to know that we're talking about the right things. Thank you and have a good day.